bonding PVC to Plastic

View previous topic View next topic Go down

bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  John on Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:18 am

I'm working on building a new type of filter and was wondering what everyone uses for bonding plastics together? I was planning on using an epoxy of some sort but thought I would ask everyone to see if someone has an expertise in bonding plastic together.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 39
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  covewi on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:05 pm

I looked into this also when looking for new ways to bond pvc. Ultrasonic welding is one method -

http://www.staplaultrasonics.com/c2-ultra/ultra.htm

Here's a pretty good explanation of plastic welding

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_welding

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  John on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:50 pm

Was that site for welding plastic to metal? The other one was plastic to plastic, but does it have to be the same plastics? Because I have PVC and Polyethylene or Polypropylene, polyurethane. I don't know. I apparently don't know my plastics too well. It's blue...and has kind of a waxy feel to it.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 39
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  covewi on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:23 pm

I really checked this out http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41592 at one time. States it will work with all plastics - but I dont know if it needs to weld like to like. Guess you could check up on that. Please post any new info.

John - check your PM

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  John on Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:45 pm

I'm not sure how that works it doesn't give a lot of info on it, but do I need some gas or something or is it electric? Is that and the plastic welding rod all I need?

I found out that I am trying to bond HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) to PVC. Hmmmmm....

I found some plastic epoxy from super glue, which I thought it would work until I got home and tested it. I looked online for the datasheet and it says not suggested for Polyethylene. Dang it! I'll see if it holds, if not, I will have to check into the plastic welding.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 39
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

hot air weld

Post  Therons on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:18 am

John

I have used a hot air plastic welder like the one shown in Harbor freight. It is an electric heater that is hooked up to compressed air. The regulator is used to adjust the air flow which also varies the temperature. There are usually several different nozzles that come with the unit. One of them accepts a small plastic rod that is fed through the nozzle and melts like a welding rod.

I've only used them on like plastics so I don't know about welding two different types. I think it might be possible but it will probably depend on which types of plastic.

Theron

Therons
Nozzle Novice
Nozzle Novice

Posts : 53
Join date : 2009-04-11
Location : North Salt Lake, Utah, USA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  John on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:22 am

That's cool! If the plastic fusion (by super glue) doesn't work then I might give that a try. I've been reading up on it, and from what I understand you can bond similar materials together as long as they are both thermoplastics, not thermosets. I really don't know since I have only been reading about it for about 15 minutes. Very Happy Obviously if they are the same plastic then it will work the best.

It's good to know that the harbor freight package is pretty much the complete deal, all it needs is the plastic welding rod, right?
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 39
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  Therons on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:45 am

As long as you have an air supply all you need is the welding rod. The question is, which type of rod to use, HDPE or PVC? I see online that the HDPE rod sell for about $8.00 for a one pound roll. When are you going to divulge the details on this new project?
Theron

Therons
Nozzle Novice
Nozzle Novice

Posts : 53
Join date : 2009-04-11
Location : North Salt Lake, Utah, USA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  John on Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:02 am

Details??? You want details???

Here is the deal. Two things are happening I'm ready to work on building a set of four nozzles that I can work with and prototype different electronics, lighting methods, and cutting mechanisms. At the same time my last prototype nozzle started acting funny, and wasn't as laminar as it should be. I still don't know what is going on with that, but my theory is that the algae in the water is ruining the laminar capabilities of stream. The reason I say this is because I had my stream working perfectly and I changed nothing in the system at all. So either something in the nozzle shifted or changed or the water changed or the filter degraded.

I looked at the filter and built a new one. Same results. I rebuilt the nozzle with new materials, same thing. I used clean new water and things got better.

So I'm looking to build a really really big filter and see what happens. At the same time since I'm building a really big filter I thought why not upgrade the nozzle to use the filter as well. That's basically what's going on.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 39
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  Therons on Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:40 am

If your nozzle worked better after you changed the water, it sounds like the water was just worn out! Laughing lol!

I guess what you're concluding is that there is algae in the water which is affecting your stream, but the problem wasn't a build up of algae in the nozzle itself. Are you sure that a filter will take care of the problem? I would tend to think that you will also have to add some type of clorination or algae control. I assume that the algae problem was not visible but that you could feel a slime on the tank, etc?

I can see a problem if some of the straws, screens, filters, were being clogged but where you rebuilt the nozzle and still had the problem, I don't see how the algae would have caused it. (but then I wouldn't have thought that lightly hitting the concrete driveway to the side of my nozzle would have cause such a disturbance in the stream!)

This makes me wonder what will happen when someone's teenage neighbor puts soap in the fountain? Since a soap reduces the surface tension of the water will it cause the stream to fall apart more easily? and if so, how difficult will it be to get it rinsed out to achive a normal result?

Therons
Nozzle Novice
Nozzle Novice

Posts : 53
Join date : 2009-04-11
Location : North Salt Lake, Utah, USA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  John on Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:44 am

I didn't rebuild the nozzle to have new straws in it. Hmmmm....maybe there is something there? I guess I know what I am doing tonight.

I guess the reason I am building a larger filter is:
1. I'm going to build 4 nozzles now.
2. The water looks like pump jitter.


The question about the teenager is a good question. How does one "flush" the system pure of any contaminants?
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 39
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re:bonding PVC to plastic

Post  JohnJarvis on Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:29 pm

Hi John For whats its worth I can confirm that algae will spoil your laminar flow. I tried using my nozzle with pond water even after filtering the first foam filter inside the nozzle clogged quickly. Normal lamiar flow was only restored after a complete dismantle and clean of foam. I suspect if we could design an external filter fine enough to filter out the algae then the flow would suffer badly. Perhaps a vortex arrangement like the Dyson Vac. might work. Anyway best of luck John Jarvis

JohnJarvis
Nozzle Newbie
Nozzle Newbie

Posts : 24
Join date : 2009-04-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  John on Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:25 pm

Did you replace everything in the nozzle, i.e. the straws too? Also was it obvious that the filter layers were clogged? I've dismantled the nozzle a couple of times, but have not been able to bring it back up to the quality I once had.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 39
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re:bonding PVC to plastic

Post  JohnJarvis on Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:36 am

No straws were OK just the filter clogged. I wonder if the commercial guys use an internal filter or an external swimming pool type. I would have liked to use my system with an existing ornamental fish pond but the above seems to prevent it.

JohnJarvis
Nozzle Newbie
Nozzle Newbie

Posts : 24
Join date : 2009-04-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  covewi on Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:50 am

I got lucky with regards to algae - I run my fountain offf the swimming pool pump and filter system - however I had a small problem when I used aluminum screening - white crystals formed - aluminum chloride ?

Most of you run the fountains off a closed water system with no filtration or chemical addivtives.

I am thinking that those type of water supplies should be treated like a living pond. Here is just one of many sites on the web talking about pond water problems - algae is mentioned too.

http://www.pondworld.com/

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  liteglow on Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:30 am

You cant glue PVC (i was told from the dealer) ..
My friend who works with PVC, he weld the PVC with melted PVC, that is the only way to make it stick forever!
avatar
liteglow
Admin

Posts : 516
Join date : 2009-04-02
Age : 35
Location : Norway

View user profile http://laminar.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  covewi on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:18 pm

John - I know you live in Utah - and we talked about Delvies Plastics before - I ran across this http://www.delviesplastics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=DPI&Category_Code=Plastic_Welding_Supplies on their website - maybe they can help.

check out this too
http://www.delviesplastics.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/pdf/How%20To%20Weld.pdf

check the link to plastic glue and welds

http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Adhesives

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: bonding PVC to Plastic

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum