NEW PROJECT TIME

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:29 pm

Time to step up!
LET MAKE A PRESSURIZED SUPER WATER SHOOTER - WATER CANNON.

Nothing like the super shooters at the Bellagio - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQDUeVg_418 - at 4:00 minutes.

But you get the idea.

"NanoShooters, the smallest in the Shooter family, have holding tanks 2 in. in diameter by 18 in. tall and need only a couple pounds of air pressure, yet propel water 10 to 12 ft high. "They're good for interactive displays," says Freitas, "Especially in large numbers when we create a forest of thin, low-force water jets."

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:34 am

I like that idea. Unfortunately I still need to make my fountains. But I would also like to make the little water ball shooters too! They just pop a little ball of water into the air. It looks neat, but probably isn't simple at all. Do you konw what I mean? I have to find some photos.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 38
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:43 pm

Please do find a photo - I would like to see that.

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  liteglow on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:31 pm

not so sure what this is actually about..

But a beam that shoot into the air is not that hard to build ??
I once did a test with this.

You need a air-compressor , water solenoid, water-pump, water tank, relay-card (pls) !

Then you pump water into the tank, close the pump end, fill it up with compressed air, when the air-pressure is correct just open up the nozzle output.
And you will have a nice POP of water shooting up in the sky Smile

Easy.. and fun..
But you will need a big fountain, if there is wind the water will blow out on your garden when it falls down .
avatar
liteglow
Admin

Posts : 515
Join date : 2009-04-02
Age : 34
Location : Norway

View user profile http://laminar.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:24 pm

Now this is what I am talking about:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=j18uAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=mark+fuller&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4#v=onepage&q=mark%20fuller&f=false

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  liteglow on Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:26 pm

yea that is almost the same I had in my head Wink

avatar
liteglow
Admin

Posts : 515
Join date : 2009-04-02
Age : 34
Location : Norway

View user profile http://laminar.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:23 pm

Coming this weekend to the central United States, under the threat of thunderstorms and temperatures in the low to mid 80's

The first firing of my water shooter using compressed air. WET DESIGN'S calls them NanoShooters.

Playing around shots are in the 15-18 foot range - however I don't want anything that high.

I am looking for a height of 5-8 feet so all the water will fall into the center of the swimming pool.




covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:24 pm

AWESOME! What are you using? Sprinkler valve, and PVC? Any interesting nozzles?
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 38
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:10 pm

I am still working out some of the details - cant find what I need at Home Depot or the hardware store.
It will be made out of PVC though.
In the patent for Wet Designs Super Shooters ( the 12 foot tall ones) - they actually use 12 " diameter and 12 foot long PVC with a fiberglass nozzle.
PVC (at least 40 schedule) has very high pressure ratings.

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:28 pm

I built an air cannon out of 3" tubing and a sprinkler valve. It had a large tank and barrel (about 5 ft long each) built in the shape of a U. I shot it with about 1/4 barrel full of water at around 70 psi, and it went REALLY REALLY HIGH. If you have some sort of nozzle .25" to it, it would blast it 4-5 times higher than your house!!!!
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 38
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:47 pm

From an article I once found -

NanoShooters, the smallest in the Shooter family, have holding tanks 2 in. in diameter by 18 in. tall and need only a couple pounds of air pressure, yet propel water 10 to 12 ft high. "They're good for interactive displays,"

The small nanoshooters from wet design are 18 inches long and 1 inch diameter with a 0.6 inch opening in the tip. I am in that range.
Since their shooters are under water it is easy to refill the empty shooter. The problem I am having is that my shooters will be outside of the pool
along side the laminar fountains so they wont self refill from the surrounding water.

I need to figure out a way to valve in a complete refill of the shooter between firings.
I am using compressed air to fire the shooter - around 5 psi should do it. I am looking for an inexpensive electronic air solenoid to quickly release the compressed air which
will be controlled by DMX.

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  Ike on Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:07 pm

Run a pipe from your pool to the shooter with a sprinkler valve. Between firings just open up the valve to flood it with water. If you're worried about pressure backflow getting through the sprinkler valve then just add a check valve in line with it to ensure one way flow.

Ike
Nozzle Novice
Nozzle Novice

Posts : 74
Join date : 2010-05-03
Age : 32
Location : Wyoming

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:59 pm

Ike - great idea.

So now I will have to have DMX control for 2 sets of RGB lighting, 2 knockers, 2 electronic air compressor release valves and 2 shooter refill valves.

Anything else you can think of?






covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:29 pm

Very disappointing testing. A 1 inch diameter - 18 inch long shooter with a 1/2 nozzle shot around 12 feet in the air under 20 psi.
I had the air hose coming in from the side of a "T" connector and the water filling up the tube from the bottom.
Using a 1/4 inch compressed air line to a 1/2 inch fitting in the "T" - I am wondering if the there is too big of a pressure
drop at the 1/2 air opening.

I will try a 1/4 inch air line into the tube.

Also, would it be better to have the air coming in from the bottom of the shooter aiming straight up?

Thoughts.

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:02 pm

John - what was the purpose of having a "U" shape to the water shooter you built. Could you give me any insight or physics behind
build a water cannon.

Relationship of water stream height to PSI.

WET DESIGN talked about (in a video I saw) that is little Nanoshooter work like - 1 foot water stream for each PSI.

A smaller nozzle would produce a faster stream and higher for the same PSI and volume of water - correct?


covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:00 am

http://mad-laboratory.com/2010/08/02/3-air-cannon/

So here is an air cannon that I built for fun for shooting things like tennis balls, and water balloons out of. Out of curiosity I filled the barrel about half full of water to see what would happen. I was using about 70 psi, and it shoot the water about twice as high as my house and just produced a very fine mist! It was pretty cool!

This is the same concept as the nanoshooters, but a lot bigger.

The shape of the cannon had nothing to do with performance, but more with keeping it as compact as possible. Basically if you want to understand how an air cannon works you can read my post on compressed air rocket launchers here.

http://mad-laboratory.com/2008/10/03/compressed-air-rockets-the-physics-behind-the-flight/

They work pretty much the same.



Last edited by John on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added additional information)
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 38
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:00 pm

What will work better to provide a quick blast of compressed air - to propel water out of a shooter - a small (1/4 inch) air line or a larger (3/4 inch) air line?
Is there a certain volume of air that is required to propel "X" about of water from the shooter?

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:18 pm

my formulas don't really work for water since the water breaks up as it gets shot out thus air escapes. That is something that you'll just have to play around with. On my air cannon I had a 1:1 air/barrel volume ratio. That would be a good place to start if it were me. You can always change the pressure of the air reservoir to get the desired height.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 38
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  Ike on Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:43 am

I would be interested to see the results of putting a sliding plate of some kind in the barrel. The water would rest on top of the plate in the barrel and when you fire it would accelerate the plate with the water on top of it. That way you'd have a solid force on the water and wouldn't have air from the firing mixing in with it before it exit the chamber.

Just experiment I'd like to see, not sure if it would really have a positive effect on the maximum height or not

Ike
Nozzle Novice
Nozzle Novice

Posts : 74
Join date : 2010-05-03
Age : 32
Location : Wyoming

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:26 am

That would be interesting to see. I think the reason my water was vaporized (in the looses sense of the word), was that the exit of the barrel was the same size as the barrel itself. I think if you nozzled it down so that it had a nice small opening in comparison it would shoot higher and more like the shooters like WET.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 38
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:45 am

What forces the water out of the barrel is the expanding water bubble. The same principal would
apply to testing with the metal plate - however the p.s.i. of the compressed air would now have
to overcome the weight of the metal plate. Counter productive? I dont know.

On a review of several "shooter" patents - they all rely on the air without any "water lifting" platform.
I think that part of the water effect is the mixing of the air and water on its way out.
The plate would cause a totally different look. Ike - are you on to something new?

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  Ike on Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:10 pm

That was kind of my thought, even the bigger shooters seems to shoot what looks like "clouds" of water into the air and not so much what you would call a concentrated stream or globe of water and I'm curious how much of that is break up after exiting and how much is mixture of air from the firing chamber. Put an air compressor hose in a bath tub and watch it and you'll see lots of bubbles and not just one big one meaning the air and water are mixing as they go. The plate would give you a pure water stream that it might be easier to do cool effects with.

As far as plate weight, if you have a 2lbs plate, 4" PVC barrel, and 70 PSI then:

Area of barrel = PI * 2^2 = 12.56636
Total pressure = PSI * Area = 12.566 * 70 = 879.64lbs
Plate Pressure Loss = (2 / 879.64) * 100% = 0.227% Loss

So a 2lbs plate is only losing you 0.2% of your pressure. Of course this ignores any friction losses which is a whole other story but could probably be minimalized as well.

Maybe this would make it more of a water gun instead of a water shooter. One of my speculations is that in a traditional water shooter the highest peak of the water blast you see might only be made up of a small percentage of the total water that was in the cannon. So maybe only 2% of the water gets 90% of the force which lets it go so high. It just looks like a lot because its vaporized and turned into mist which makes it look like more water than it really is.

Ike
Nozzle Novice
Nozzle Novice

Posts : 74
Join date : 2010-05-03
Age : 32
Location : Wyoming

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:28 pm

Mark Fuller of Wet Design talked about his shooters and found that all "his shooters" water reached the maximum height that was expected. It does not appear that
way when you watch a shooter but as the last water to leave the shooter is going up the first water out is coming down. His largest shooters are 12 feet tall - there surely is
some lag time for all the water to get out.

The plate design would have to incorporate a "stop" mechanism to prevent the plate from being shot out along with the water.
There was one design that I saw used a spring loaded plate - that was held down - by the filled shooters water and as the water was
released the spring pushed the plate up exposing the water refill holes - then as the water pressure overcame the springs force the plate
moved down and closed the refill hole - cool concept.

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:17 pm

Ike - since you came up with those nice formulas you might be able to answer this - what is more important ( or maybe it does not matter) a large orifice for the compressed air to enter
the shooter (large volume quickly), a small orifice (which would give a higher velocity) - thoughts?

Also, is the psi the only factor that matters? Does the volume of air and psi play a role?

I maybe way off here - let me know.

Thanks

covewi
Nozzle Pro
Nozzle Pro

Posts : 248
Join date : 2009-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:42 pm

You can think of compressed air like a spring. As you are pumping up your tank you are pushing the spring back. The volume of air is like the length of the spring, and the pressure is like the stiffness of the spring. The longer and more stiff your spring is the higher the water will shoot. This post will give you an idea of how it will work. http://mad-laboratory.com/2008/10/03/compressed-air-rockets-the-physics-behind-the-flight/


h = (P.rocket – 14.7)*A*x/(12*W)
Note: This does not take into account the fact that the pressure decreases as the length of the tube increases. My orginal purpose of this equation it wasn't needed. I neglected that because the volume of air to the rocket length of the rocket body was much much larger.

where

h =(ft) height of the water

P.rocket = (Psi) Pressure of the water launcher compressed air tank

14.7 psi = (Psi) Pressure of the atmosphere (@sea level)

A = (in^2) Cross-section of the Inner Water Nozzle I.D. (not the fins) = (π*d^2)/4

x = (in) the length of the Water Nozzle

W = (lbs) weight of the water

Again this is only an estimate since the water will break up as it shot and air will escape the sides, and the fact that the orginal equation neglected that the pressure will decrease as it expands in the water nozzle.
avatar
John
Nozzle Master
Nozzle Master

Posts : 450
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 38
Location : Utah

View user profile http://www.mad-laboratory.com

Back to top Go down

Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum