NEW PROJECT TIME

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:23 pm

I made three tests - the first was a 1/2 inch diameter nozzle 18 inches long without any tapered tip.
At 30 psi the stream was fairly concentrated till around 8 feet then it started to break up (fan out) and reached a max height of around 12 feet. Was very nice and had the
"pop" sound that goes along with a shooter.

At 50 psi the stream reached at least 30 feet but was very fine, spread out and covered a large area on landing.

The second test was 1 inch nozzle 18 inches long with a 3/4 inch tapered nozzle. At 30 psi there was a great shoot. The water reached maybe 8 feet but came out in
"blobs" "balls' of water. Way Cool.

With the pressure at 60 it was out of site - but more vaporized.

The third test was the same 1 inch tube with a cap having a 1/2 inch orifice. At 30 psi there was a concentrated - straighter - stream reach 40 feet.

I have a 15 foot diameter pool and want to place the shooters between the two laminar fountains. I like the blob firings and a high straight shot. I will try to get a max height
that will produce a stream that will reach the apex and come down in the center of the pool.

I need to dig out a trig book.

Hopefully I can get some video this weekend.

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  Ike on Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:58 pm

Or you could just use an online projectile calculator if you want to skip the trig

Like this one: http://www.craville.110mb.com/calculators/proj.htm

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:22 pm

Here's the first prototype of my water cannon - most of the ideas come from the original patent by Mark Fuller - one is a larger reservoir than the nozzle tube - which
goes between the nozzle tube and the air supply - the second which I will do next its to angle the reservoir tube up (around 40 degrees - not at a 90 degree angle like I have.

I will need to make a more percision nozzle than a 1/2 inch hole drilled in the top of a PVC cap.

I have and air leak in my supply hose and the angle of launch is all wrong.

Starting from the left: air supply hose at 25 psi - sprinkler solenoid valve - 3/4 pipe to 1.5 inch pipe 18 inches long (its the water reservioir) 1.5 inch to 3/4 inch 90 degree elbow - 18 inch long 1" diameter nozzle tube - PVC end cap with a 1/2 inch exit hole.

http://i37.tinypic.com/s312x3.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/aoswo7.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/aahdmv.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/icolqp.jpg

I know it looks funny - its not a muzzle loader - I just have not built an automatic refill system yet - the cannon holds around 32 oz of water.
The height is realistically 20-25 feet and does not cover too much of a splash down area. I think that if I get the launch angle correct I can shoot
that high and still keep it in the pool.

View My Video





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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:05 pm

Question -

All things the same - 30 psi into the nozzle - 1/4 inch air hose from compressor - shooter water reservoir 1.5 inch in diameter - same volume of water - etc.

Would there be any difference in the pressure from the release valve comparing a 3/4 inch outlet to a 1 " diameter outlet?


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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:53 am

All things equal except the diameter, it will probably be close to the same results. There are losses as a fluid is traveling through pipes, and through angles, but it's not to worry about at this point and time in our fountains (at least I don't think so) unless you are trying to eek out every last PSI.
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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:15 pm

Here's the latest design of a compressed air water shooter based on this patent -
http://www.google.com/patents?id=OjUlAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=4978066&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false



I have a close up photo and video of Mark Fuller describing his water shooter during an episode of Made In America - but to post that would
be a copyright violation - so you won't see it from me.

Basically I am getting close - but need to order some hard to find PVC connectors to increase the size of the water reservoir ( the angled tube) and
stream line some connections.

Water refill will go in the left side of the "T" - I will have sprinkler solenoid valve there too - as the water fills up the tubes I will have it stop just
short of the top of the shooter tube which will also be level with the water in the 45 degree tube. Compressed air is released from the sprinkler solenoid valve on the right.

I think the idea of having a larger reservoir tube is to increase the volume of water being released all at once, or have a large supply of water for multiple small burst shots,
but more importantly the patent talks about decreasing the pressure in the angled tube relative to the nozzle which appears to help with a quick turn off of the water stream.

Ideally I would like to have a 2 or 3 inch angled tube to a corresponding size "T" and a 1 inch shooter tube (which I have now)

I need to find a 1/2 inch diameter tapered nozzle now.

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:03 pm

I finally wired in sprinkler solenoid to refill the water shooter - refill time is slow - I will need to get it to around 5 secs to be able to make multiple quick firings.

Having the 2 inch reservoir tube added a lot of water to the effect but I still need the 3 inch tube - larger volume of water in the air = nicer effect.

I am ordering a plastic tapered water nozzle with a 1/2 inch diameter outlet - right now I am shooting the water out of a 1/2 inch hole drilled in a PVC end cap.

You can see the laminar stream in the center bottom of the video - as a reference point the arch is 5 feet high.

View My Video

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:25 pm

I finally found some helpful "shooter" info ( found this on a Disney World travel site.

# 212 Micro Shooters® located in the upper pool; each propels 2 gallons of water up to 80 feet in the air.

# 40 MiniShooters® located in the lower pool; each propels 5 gallons of water up to 100 feet in the air.

# 12 SuperShooters® located in the upper pool; each propels 50 gallons of water up to 150 feet in the air.

# 60 Spray nozzles

# Air accumulators for the SuperShooters® activates with pressures of 30 PSI to 120 PSI.

# 190,000 feet (35 miles) of electrical wire and 22,000 feet (4 miles) of conduit.

# If all of the shooters triggered simultaneously, there would be 2,000 gallons of water in the air.

Note that Shooter®, MicroShooter®, MiniShooter®, SuperShooter® are registered trademarks of WET Design.

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:40 pm

In the above photo the water enters the nozzle from the left. In theory it should fill the vertical and angled tube at the same time and be level when filled. After several firings I noticed that I did not have a volume of water being shot that should be in both tubes - 32 oz fill these two tubes - I finally realized that as the water was filling it pushed against the air tapped in the angled tube because the solenoid valve is closed.

I filled the tubes first then attached the solenoid valve and wow - it worked.

I will get a 3 way solenoid valve. When the air is firing into the tube the exhaust valve is closed (water won't escape) then when the air valve is closed the exhaust valve is open allowing the trapped tube air to escape.

Wet Design patents talk about a three way valve but not for filling. They state that and open exhaust valve after the air is shut off allows for a more precise and quicker shutting off of the expelled stream.


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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:38 pm

I was at work when you posted that video so I never took a look at it until now. That looks really good! What are your thoughts on perhaps a larger tube with more water? You don't throttle it down with a nozzle do you? I think I remember saying that you aren't using one.

What if you used 2" - 3" diameter tubing? Muha ha ha (evil laughter)!!!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:00 pm

Fuller patent:
#24 is the angled tube
#22 is the nozzle
#26 the vertical tube

A lot of physics going on here - also the larger diameter angled tube increases the volume of water that can be expelled. Either at once
or in multiple short bursts.

I have been messing around with different nozzles. It appears the larger the shooter (higher water volume and psi of compressed air ) the
larger the nozzle opening with no extension.

On the smaller shooters - there are tapered nozzles being used around 2-3 inches in length. I have tried it with and without. Different effects.
Maybe will use a mixture of both.


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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  kidike on Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:41 am

hi
I'm new in this field. I want a 1m long and 1m high stream to do it.Which type of be-pentair or Strawson.What kind of tube diameter and length? tanhk Question

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:43 pm

If I understand your needs - a 1 m X 1 m laminar stream could easily be accomplished with either a 4 or 6 inch diameter tube around 12 inches long.

Most of us are building a 18 inch long tube and 8 inches in diameter.

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3 way selenoid

Post  pbracer on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:46 am

Did you find a 3 way. If I understand correctly the change from "firing" mode where the pressurized air is let through, to the "open" mode where presureized air is stopped but "vent air" is open provides for the better shut down that he is describing as well as the subsequent "refill" of the angled tube. Am I getting this right?

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:11 pm

The first photo shows that when the solenoid is energized the compressed air will shoot the water out of the nozzle.
The second photo is after the air is shut off and refilling begins. The third port is now open to let the trapped air out as the angled tube that is filling.


This solenoid valve is only $30 and would work except that the orifice is only 1/4 inch. I dont know if that is large enough to get the compressed air out quickly.

How does is work - i imagine that a larger diameter orifice open for the a set amount of time will let more air through than a smaller orifice left open for the same period of time. However the velocity of the smaller diameter orifice would be faster.

I wonder if just -playing - with the length the valve is left open would get the same amount of water out of the nozzle.

Thoughts


Last edited by covewi on Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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I think

Post  pbracer on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:15 pm

The volumn of the air is what is important to displace the volumn of water, so whatever "orifice" size you have you may have to increase the pressure in order to get the same volumn of air through the smaller orifice to push the water out

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:31 pm

Photo correction. So you think this might work? Worth the try I guess. Thanks

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Thoughts on a mini like shooter, 4 gallons, maybe 100 feet

Post  rickharp on Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:46 am

This is a very rough drawing, but provides some idea of my initial conceptual. I am planning on holding it, so it may be heavy and have too much "kick". Also planning on filling it with a hose or dipping it into the lake. I'd incorporate a air filler valve and gauge in the side of the air chamber. The two cylinders would be straped together.





Like others in this thread, the idea of a loose plunger (cap like structure inside the water storage tube) is interesting. it may prevent the majority of the air mixing with the water and for the most part eject closer to 90% of the water as it is pushed upward.

i also intend to use a 9volt battery to open and close the solonoid, with a push button.

If anyone has any input or ideas, it would be appreciated. Thanks

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  pbracer on Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:53 am

I think the concept of the other angled filler tube/air tube was that the air was already above the water when it began to push. It was in fact pushing the water down the vertical tube, not up, so the mixing issue didn't really exist (air lighter than water) until the vertical tube had exhausted all it's water and the air reached the bottom of the angled tube and began to rise through the water in the vertical tube. At this point the water in the vertical tube had been "shot".

In that design you didn't need a "plunger" since the water in the angled tube was acting as the plunger. the angeled tube held approxiamately the same or maybe more water than the vertical tube did.

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:20 pm

Pbracer - you will need to pressurize the air tube to significantly expel the amount water in a 4 " inch diameter tube - enough to produce a "large" air bubble.

With you set up - the volume of compressed air should just about equal the volume of water your trying to shoot - I got that info from several Wet Design videos I have seen.


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Medium water shooter first view

Post  rickharp on Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:43 am

Last night i built my first water cannon. I did employ a plunger/piston. Both cylinders are 4" Sch 40 pipe, one is air, the other i guess holds about 2.5 gallons of water. The sprinkler value is 1", and is activated with a momentary push button and a 9volt battery. The piston is a 3" pvc cap, which fit perfectly, I added a 1/8" hole in the top center of the cap to allow any air to escape and the cap fall back down.

So far i've only shot it 3 times. The last test was about 50psi and almost full water. i'd say it went about 35 feet high, lots of water. Not bad, but not as impressive as a tennis ball in a Right Guard spud cannon. It has a severe kick if you are holding it. Thinking abour throttling down the nozzle again but want to hear from others. Here are pictures. Any and all comments welcome. I'll try to post a video soon. Would love to learn more about this... in case you know of another website or forum.

link to 4 images on Google Picasa website

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:56 am

That looks AWESOME! I love it! It looks very well built! Like the way you tied it together. I just used some wire and then some duct tape. It works but doesn't look at nice as yours.

Were those photos taken at your house or at a business place? It looks kind of like a business.
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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  rickharp on Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:25 am

my office. had to bring it in for Show and Tell.

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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  John on Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:25 am

Nice!

What line of work are you in?
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Re: NEW PROJECT TIME

Post  covewi on Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:23 pm

Check out this video on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3zl9OLIKgA&feature=related

Starting at 1:32 is a mini shooter and at 2:03 is a supper shooter.

Maybe some inspiration.

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