Australian Pool Jet

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Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:36 pm

Hi,

I'm new here, but I want to start a thread about my laminar jet that will be the water feature for my pool. This is my first jet, so I'm hoping that I can get some advice here too. ;-)

My jet will be quite big. I'm using a 300mm PVC pipe (11.5") and I'm making one jet and a lowpass filter. It will all be hard plumbed with pipe, so no hoses planned. My intention is to include LED lighting with fibers, but no cutter. My goal is to get the laminar stream perfect all the way. I hope that the LED fibers wont interfere. ;-)


I have a couple questions to through out there:

What will be an appropriate nozzle size for this size of jet? I was thinking about 15mm - 20mm. As mentioned above I want the stream perfectly laminar.

What would be the best way to cap the ends? I would like the bottom to be fixed and the top to be able to open. I was thinking about buying pre-made pipe caps.


I have attached a few pics to show my progress so far and I also included a pic of my LED's. ;-)












Looking forward to some feedback. ;-)


Karsten

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:20 pm

I've installed my piping connections in the lowpass filter, so I thought that I would post a pic. ;-) Now I'm just waiting for some more bits to be able to move on to the next step. ;-)




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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:27 am

Just found a guy that can make me the PVC pieces i need for the end of the pipe. Picking them up tomorrow, so hopefully this will allow me to get on to the next stage of production. ;-)

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  liteglow on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:41 am

impressive !

with that size of the pvc tubes u will get a pretty nice laminar flow !
Remember that the bigger diameter is better than longer pipe.
So the big diameter of yours will for sure give u a great advance.

The size of output you just have to test out until u get what u want.

The LED seems to be small ? (is that 5mm led)
For better light you should look at luxeon star.


cheers and post video of your progress Smile
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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:23 pm

Hi liteglow,

I have realized that I have to look into the LED side of things a bit more. ;-) My plan is now to make too nozzles and try which one works best. I'll post some video as soon as I get it hooked up to some water. ;-) It'll be another few months I think.


Brgrds

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:32 pm

Hi again,

The latest is that I have sorted out a solution to cap my pipe. I got some bits made up and is seems to be working ok.



I've installed the bottom in the lowpass filter and one ring in the Jet.



After 24 hours of waiting I tested for leaks with a in water test. I used a couple of plastic bags to seal the input and output pipes.



Unfortunately I had one little leak. Bugger! ;-)



Now I have resealed it and will try again. I have also installed the connector for the pipe for the LED fibers.



I'm off to work tomorrow and as I work offshore I won't be able to do much for the next 5 weeks. I hope to get a few things done on the lathe on board though. Nozzles etc... ;-)

I'll keep you posted on how I go. ;-)


Brgrds

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  liteglow on Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:40 pm

Great project Smile

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  jetty on Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Nice work. The daughter board on the BlinkM though won't cut it for reasonable brightness though. The BlinkM MaxM itself though is
a wonderful solution to handle the color schemes.

I used a BlinkM instead to drive Buckpucks to a 40W Star Led, the circuitry can be found here: http://laminar.forumotion.com/t283-jetty-s-wifi-web-based-laminar-jet-project.

You can still use your daughter board in the electronics for visual confirmation, even though it's driving the Buck Pucks.

The nozzle diameter I would set to about 1/2 inch max even though it's a larger tube, unless you have a killer pump and even then I wouldn't go much larger than 3/4 inch. You can always go larger if you need to. Nozzle sharpness you'll find will be critical, if you don't have a lathe, I think "John" was shipping nozzles.

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:54 pm

Thanks for the tips jetty. ;-) I will take a good look at your wiring diagram and try to use the BlinkM for the color sequences. I'll get some ordering done so the parts will be waiting for me at home when I get back from work.

I'll also try to make two nozzles to see which one will work the best. I guess the most important thing is not to get too "greedy" with the size... ;-) As mentioned before my aim is to get the stream perfect all the way to the end. ;-)

Do you think it will be a problem to have a ring inside the top plate of the jet? This will mean that the inside is not flat all the way to the edge of the pipe. I wonder if this will effect the laminar flow?

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  jetty on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:05 am

>Do you think it will be a problem to have a ring inside the top plate of the jet?
>This will mean that the inside is not flat all the way to the edge of the pipe. I wonder
> if this will effect the laminar flow?

It's tough to say, part of this is science and part art. Many would say it would effect it, but then doing things like putting fiber
in the end chamber you would expect to effect it too, and it doesn't unless you have it too close to the top plate.

So my guess would be provided whatever you're doing doesn't create a lot of turbulence, or the disturbance you're making to the laminar stream isn't being created too close to the nozzle output, you'll likely get away with it.

The biggest things I found that effected quality on large tubes were Tangential Input, A Core For the Input water to spin around, Low Pass Filter, Nozzle and Pump Volume.
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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:12 pm

I guess that I'll try with the ring and see how it goes. If I get too much turbulence I'll just have to reconfigure the setup. I'll definitely try to add a solid core to the base chamber. That sounds like a great idea! ;-)

I had a good look at your circuit diagram and I just wanted to confirm that you use three channels to the one LED? You mention two different types of LED's so I just wanted to make sure. It looks like the 40W LED that you linked is out of stock. I was looking at some different ones and was wondering if something like this will work?

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/solid-state-lighting/7334805/?searchTerm=LZC-A0MD00&relevancy-data=636F3D3126696E3D4931384E4272616E644D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C26706D3D5E285C772B5B2D5C2E5C732F5D292B285C772B293F2426706F3D3526736E3D592673743D4B4559574F52445F4D554C54495F414C5048415F4E554D45524943267573743D4C5A432D41304D4430302677633D4E4F4E4526

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  jetty on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:59 am

Wow 90W ;-) Be real careful of your eyes when testing, and especially the blue, it tends to impart more damage to your retina.

Regarding the 3 channels, the LED's are RGBW (W = White). Really they are 4 channels but the BlinkM is 3. You can also make white out of just RGB, but it's not as perfect as using the separate white channel (which is a daylight white). But for our purposes, as we're not lighting a room, or doing spectral work with it, white from RGB is good enough.

Regarding the 90W led, it looks the same as mine apart from being higher wattage, but the data sheet doesn't match the specification and
there are inconsistencies in the part numbers, so you'll want to check with RS what's going on and what you're going to get, because most of the information points to you getting a 40W not a 90W. If it truly is a 40W, you're getting what I have.

If it is a 40W, it'll work fine. Each 3021-D-E-1000 buck puck can drive up to 1A per channel. If it's truly 90W, then you'll need to check the current per channel in the specs, but my guess is it would be around double per channel and the buck puck would need to be larger, but they only go upto 1A. So, you can still drive it with that circuit, but it won't drive it at full brightness.
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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:52 pm

I contacted RS and they just told me that the LED is 40W, so it was excitement for nothing. Just false marketing. Bummer. ;-) Is around $100 a reasonable price to pay for a 40W LED?

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  jetty on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:45 pm

>Is around $100 a reasonable price to pay for a 40W LED?
If it's $100 USD, then no. If it's AUD, I don't know. Compare it with the USD prices to get an idea.
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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:06 pm

It's around 115 USD! I was looking at the link for Mouser Electronics in your previous post. It seems that the LED's they have in stock aren't MCPCB mounted. I'm having some trouble finding other sources for LED's at the moment.

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:32 pm

I found one! http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=55T6473 It looks like this one is MCPCB mounted and its about half price. ;-)

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:41 pm

I just ordered all the bits that I need to be able to copy jetty's LED design. They should be waiting for me at home when I get back. Now I just need to find a little bit of time to make my nozzle! ;-) I'll post some pics when its done.

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:40 pm

I had a scout around the ship yesterday and found an old shaft in stainless steel. I'll use this to lathe my nozzle(s). I should be able to get this nice and sharp and it should also withstand the corrosion from the pool water. ;-) My plan is to make two nozzles, one 15mm and one 20mm and then test them both when i get everything set up to see which one will give me the best laminar flow. I hope the 20mm will work, but at least i have the 15mm for backup if the jet, pump etc. can't cope. ;-) I'll post some pics as soon as I'll get going. ;-)

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:28 pm

I made a start on my nozzles today! ;-) I got the lathe spinning down i the ships workshop.



As mentioned above I'm machining them out of an old stainless axle I found. I hope that I'll be able to make the nozzle edge nice ans sharp. ;-)



This is my progress so far. It'll take me a few days to complete as I can only squeze in about an hour and a half on the lathe everyday as I work 12 hours a day moving an oil rig at the moment.



I'll post some more pictures when I get more done. ;-)

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:33 pm

This is how far I got today. on my 15mm nozzle. ;-) It's taking some time as I'm "designing" as I go. I was trying to get the angled edge to be 45 degrees to get a sharper edge, but I've had to settle for 30 degrees. Otherwise I think it will work well. I think that I might have to make the angled edge 20 - 25 degrees on the 20mm nozzle. I'll see tomorrow. ;-)




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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:30 pm

I finished my two nozzles today. I'm quite pleased with the outcome. They seam to be very sharp edged both of them even if the angle of the inside is different. I hope that I'll be able to use the 20mm one, but at least I have the 15mm on as backup if the stream isn't completely laminar. I guess that I'll find out how my pump will deal with it as I test it. ;-) Please comment on the design if you think that they won't do the job. ;-)





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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  jetty on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:14 pm

I normally test with a piece of paper, to see if they slice it. I don't mess with the edge much either, i.e. no sanding / grinding.

They should work great. You'll see soon enough when you get them running. If you see striations coming out at the nozzle, then they're not sharp/clean enough, but they look good.
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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:36 pm

Two weeks left at sea before 5 weeks off. ;-) My plan is to make a heat sink (water cooled) for my LED and a air draining valve on the lathe before I sign off. If I get this done I should have all the bits I need for assembly when I get back home. ;-)

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:12 pm

I've been thinking of a solution to water cooling my LED and I thought that maybe I should make a constant drain from the top of the jet on the side, through the LED heat sink. The only question now is if this will effect the laminar flow through the nozzle???

The reason I've been thinking about this solution is that then I don't need to make a separate valve for draining air out of the nozzle as this should drain through the same line.

The question now is if this will work??? I was thinking to use maybe a 5mm internal diameter of the drain. Any comments would be appreciated! ;-)

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Re: Australian Pool Jet

Post  karsten.bojesen on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:55 pm

I spent a few hours on the lathe today starting on my LED heat sink. I have based it on Jetty's design, but my plan is to use water to cool it. I will pass the water through the hole in the heat sink with a piece of stainless steal pipe. There are a few things missing but it should be done soon. ;-)






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