Liteglow`s laminar project

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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:29 pm

Thank you for the 4 bulbs heh heh ..
But I did expect the glass to be perfect smooth, with sharp edges like glass normally have.
But when it was drilled, the hole was not sharp and clear as glass usually is.

So the idea of using glass, I dont think it will work.
If not it`s possible to polish the glass so it will be hyper sharp at the edges..

Thanx for the offer, but I think Mario can make me some :-)

If not, I think I can find someone here that have the tools to do it..
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:39 pm

Hey Man! That's cool, it works, too bad because the glass Crying or Very sad
Now you can go on with your next solution, the cutter! I think its damn hard to make a real good cutter and also very hard to make a cool outlet with no splash back. I am still try to perfect this.
But you was very fast the last week, congratulation.
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UPDATE !

Post  liteglow on Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:43 am

Here is an update :-)

What is new:

8" PVC pipe
900pc of NON bended straws
PERFECT drilled brass ring (thank you Mario)
Thin sponge filter at the bottom
And some sunny nice weather Cool

here is some pictures:

Here is the top plate


Bottom (4-5mm sponge filter)


NICE flow








It`s so clear that my neighbor did ask me what that was Razz
He was impressed that it was water..
First he did think that it did follow something in the air LOL

here is a video:





The water flow PERFECT in the air !
Dont know how far it can throw, but I had to adjust down my pump, because it did break apart on full power !
But this is the length that I need, so it`s perfect for my use Smile

And it`s NO sound at all when it hit the bowl of water where my pump is..


Cheers and thanx for looking..
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  John on Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:50 am

Congratulations! That looks really really good! I'm very impressed. You caught up really quickly! Your construction looks very solid.

What sort of throw are you getting in your pictures? Are you going to do lighting and cutting?
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:35 am

Hy Man, Congratulation, you did it! Wow, i am impressed about the stream, so Still and silent. Perfect! Man, Perfect! Very nice pictures. How did you bing the pump power down?
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Therons on Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:00 am

Fantastic! Perfectly smooth and no pump jitter. I am impressed!

But of course I have questions. I don't see any screen on the top of the straws holding them down, did you glue them together or just fit them tightly?
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:03 pm

Thanx fro the reply...

Yes I will do Cutting and Lights !
Now I know what size I need to use, what pressure, how many straws, and how far it throw .
So next is to begin on the cutter.

Mario: I have a adjustment on the pump.
So I can adjust it down some bit... but not so much.

Btw: I did try to remove the Low-Pass filter, and the pump did throw the water at a very longer distance Rolling Eyes
But it did fall apart at that long distance..
It seems like it "shakes" apart when it fall down at the end..
And the shaking seems like it have the same "tone" as the pump. hmz..
So maybe the pump make a noise that follow the water all the way until it break apart?


Therons: I did not use any glue.
I did stuff the straws so tight that they hold them self on place..

On todays test, the bottom did fall out, the silicone was yet not hard enough Surprised
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sun May 03, 2009 1:25 pm

I just wonder, what do you do with this problem :



The silicone cannot be used on PVC, so it will not hold the pressure and weight of the bottom on the nozzle :\
Third time I fail with this problem..
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sun May 03, 2009 1:46 pm

OHH NO! What a pitty.

Just use a ring behind the glass, like therons V2. Or use like i do 4 metal srew rod, or how ever this things called in englsih.
Problem solved..... cheers
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sun May 03, 2009 1:54 pm

Oh yes..
I can add a ring there to support..

Actually I had some screws in there..
But one of the screw did miss the plexiglass (it`s only 5mm so it`s hard to make the screw to enter it)
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PROBLEM !

Post  liteglow on Mon May 04, 2009 12:16 pm

Ok here is the short story.

On my last post you can see how the bottom pop out and water did leak!
So I did press the bottom in again, and drilled in one extra screw and then sealed it again with silicone .
After some hours in the sun I did connect the pump to do one more test..


But it was a interesting result :






It seems like the water did Twist in the air ???
The first 1-3 feet it was perfect, but then it start to twist in the air, and then it breaks up !!

This is very strange, because it did work 100% last day, and today it totally failed ??
Why can this happens over night ??

It`s very annoying that it happens, but on the other side it`s a good reason to learn that laminar water is very fragile for error!
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  John on Mon May 04, 2009 12:27 pm

That is very strange. I'd like to see some video of it if you can. I can be difficult understanding exactly what is happening here, but I'd imagine that the water is not all flowing in the same direction. That is why you are getting that ripple or spike of water in the picture. It looks like you have two different stream converging and making the spike in the middle.

Ideally you want all the particles in the water all moving at the same speed and in the same direction. Any particles not moving uniformly makes the stream break up after some time. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm wondering if you have your particles misaligned (somehow) so that after they shoot out the brass ring eventually they would hit. You'd get some sort of focus point after the water jumped out. After the "focus" point the water should break up pretty quickly.

That's just a guess. Without really getting a good look at it I can't really tell.

Is that what is happening?
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Mon May 04, 2009 12:33 pm

I did consider taking a video..
But the picture really tell what happens .

When I try it, what happens is that the water seems to be fine at first..
But you can see that there is movement in the water..
And it seems like it`s "alive" when it comes to the top of the jump..

It shakes\twist\make turns in the air, and you can se that it`s not how it supposed to be..

My guess is like you say, there must be some problem in the nozzle (of course) that make this happens.
But what is it ?
The sponge filter in the bottom is 2 parts, and I think there is like a 3-4mm glitch between them on the middle..
Maybe that is the reason ..

The water find a "fast" way between the filter, and enter the middle of the nozzle faster than the other parts that moves in the filter..
(maybe?)
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  John on Mon May 04, 2009 12:39 pm

Yeah, that seems to make sense.

So if I understand what you are saying is that the water is spiraling down the stream. So that means that some of your water is moving faster than the other.

Things to check.

Did your straws shift and aren't axially aligned in the tube?
Are you filter allowing some of the water to easily pass through while the rest has to fight through the filter?
Are the tops of the straws all at the same level (as flat as possible)?
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Mon May 04, 2009 12:42 pm

Thank you for the response..
Will go out right now and check it out Wink
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Mon May 04, 2009 2:21 pm

Here is an update..

I was out, and I discover there was a tiny glitch in the sponge filter..
There was an opening at the ends..

It was hard to take a picture of it..
So I did ehm... hit my nozzle pretty hard, so the opening was bigger Razz
Then I took a photo of it:





As you can see the water will travel at much faster speed on the opening.
So it will create turbulence when it reach the top of the straws, and that will make the water beam break apart !


I`m glad that this did happen now, so I know what I have to improve on my next nozzles I going to make :-)

A new day and still learning something new cheers
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Therons on Mon May 04, 2009 2:52 pm

As I told my boss, "I don't mind learning from my mistakes, I just wish I didn't learn so much every single day!" Smile

Good work, Glad you found it!

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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Mon May 04, 2009 3:37 pm

Therons wrote:As I told my boss, "I don't mind learning from my mistakes, I just wish I didn't learn so much every single day!" Smile

Good work, Glad you found it!

Haha Wink

Yes I think it`s interesting to fail, and then make it even better next time..
Until it`s so good there is nothing that fail ..

The only down about this is that I must take out the silicone once again ....
And wait one more day until it get hard Razz

And I`m going for a "job" trip the next 2 days... so well..
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  John on Mon May 04, 2009 3:38 pm

Just silicone it all up before your trip and then you it will be ready for your next test when you get back.
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Mon May 04, 2009 3:40 pm

John wrote:Just silicone it all up before your trip and then you it will be ready for your next test when you get back.

Problem is that the clock is 00:40am now :p
And I`m leaving tomorrow early (07:00) hehe..

The possetive thing is that when I open it all up now, I will add my fiber optic inside the nozzle.
And give that a test also :-)
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Mon May 04, 2009 11:13 pm

Hi Filip

Hey grat, you found the problem! Very Happy
I am a little late, but we will miss you the next days Wink
Try to use a full size sponge, this will work better.

Have a nice trip

MARIO
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Fri May 08, 2009 4:23 pm

I`m back and have doing some work on the prototype nozzle Wink

What is new:
- Added fiber optic into the nozzle
- Added one layer of metal filter on top
- Added one layer of metal filter on bottom + one filter after the water output from pump..
- New way to seal the bottom, silicone as gasket and then added screws around the plexi plate .

Here is some pictures:
(be aware of some BAD pictures... someone did just show us how a nozzle should look like, but remember this is a test nozzle that have been assembled and reassembled many many times now...)

Bottom with fiber out:



Fiber optic light on the top:



photo of the light taken above the nozzle:



The light seems sharp, but it did not hit directly into the output.. so I really not so sure if it would work Rolling Eyes
I don't know if the nozzle will work because I don't have any (sponge) filter at all on the bottom..
Photos of the test tomorrow Wink

Cheers
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Fri May 08, 2009 11:28 pm

Hello Filip, Cool you have now Light! The Light needs to hit direct the output, 2mm off center is visible very hard. Sad But you will see some light, specially in the dark. Send some pics! bounce
mario
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sat May 09, 2009 2:26 am

Yes I know I need to hit the center Surprised
But the hole is bigger than the fiber cable.. And I did try to bend the fiber to the hole..
So I think it will hit, but maybe directly in paralell..
Anyway, this is only a test Wink
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sat May 09, 2009 5:55 am

The test was a success:)

But I need to seal the top the same way as I did seal the bottom.
The top-plate cannot be placed inside the pipe, but over it !!

The light was Ok, but not so good as I need it to be..








It can run at almost full speed on the pump.
But after some time it start to make some small slash and splosh on the end Razz
I dont know why, but this is maybe the limit of how far the beam can get.
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