Liteglow`s laminar project

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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sat May 09, 2009 3:44 pm

Nice, relly nice. I have a similar Problem, when i test, the stream is not every time the same nice, sometime it is perfect, but next time is not. Ok i test outside, and we have often wind, thas not good.

Try to use your low pass Filter, this will maybe help and are you shure about your sponge, will it fit exact now? Maybe after running th system after a while, it happen again. just a thaught.

I am Testing now my complete rebuild 8" / 20cm nozzle, first impression is good, much higher and better than my 1. one, but as dubble big.

What is the problem with your top plate? i can see you dont use a ring after the plate, this not good. But screws and mounting it outside can work too, but you need long screws. How thick is your wall in the nozzle?
Arround 5mm / 0.2"?
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sat May 09, 2009 4:26 pm

Hi.. and thanx for the reply Smile
Yes if you have wind when you test it, that can be a problem !
I did some test inside my garage now, and when I have the pump at full speed the water stream is 1000% perfect !
(I dont have any low-pass filter, and the water is just moving 5-10mm up\down in the air)


The problem with my Top was the same as my bottom before..
I did just use silicone on the PVC.. And as you know, silicone dont stick to PVC plastic !
But I have used some screws from the pvc and into the plexiglass.
And now it is tight as damn Wink

I did not think the pump did create so much pressure, but it sure does!!

I not so sure Mario if I did understand about the sponge ?
I have removed everything under the straws now !!!
No sponge at all .
Just some metal filter under the straws, and one metal filter above the straws.

And the result was perfect!!
So I will never use any sponge stuff again, when it`s no need to have it there !


Did one more test on the light now, and it was some light in the beam when I shake it.
But nothing like in your videos Crying or Very sad

About the size of my pipe, I guess it`s more like 8-10mm thick on the walls.
And the plexiglass on top is 5mm.
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sun May 10, 2009 12:44 am

wow, no sponge and a clear stream, nice! One Problem, i wan to talk about, the best i post a new topic, is about a water filter to clean the water, my first nozzle i build last year is that much full of dirt, i cant believe it, and i use only fresh water! Dirt between the sponge und metal filter, that's the reason why my new nozzle is so much better! So all of us will need a water cleaning filter! I don't like to break apart my nozzle every month for maintenance. What you think about and how can we solve this problem? My fist idea was to use a 3" tube and make a Filter sponge 20 ppm inside, this sponge can replaced easy by open the tube, so you can be sure, no Dirt in your nozzle! This Filter is placed between the Pump and The Nozzle.

The light, if you want more light, use a water enhancer, the fluid i use, you just need a drop, i its biological and not toxic. in daylight you cant see it, but at night enormously more light. The one i used is normally made for drill press, for water cooling, yes its a brown cooling fluid, when you mix it it looks white, like milk in the water, but don't use as much, just a drop or two is enough. Very Happy
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sun May 10, 2009 3:32 am

Ah yes I did think about using some liquid colored fluid (from the PC cooling stuff)
But I think I need better fiber optic to have more light..


You are true about the dirt..
But if you dont have any sponge in the laminar nozzle.
The dirt will not collect in the sponge ? and instead travel all the way OUT of the nozzle ?? Rolling Eyes

And to clean the nozzle, just disconnect the hoses and reverse the water stream IN the output..
So the dirt comes out the nozzle input Wink

I think I will use only the metal filters that have OK size in the holes.
So I hope my dirt will go out with the water..

Anyway I will take my nozzle inside every winter because of frost, then I can clean them maybe!

And btw: My pump does have a small filter on the water input (maybe your new pump also have it)
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sun May 10, 2009 3:58 am

I don think you can remove all the dirt with reverse the water, but shure a bit of it. Today i fucked up one string of my fiber cable ... ohh shit! now i have to open the nozzle again. Mad

Mounting the cutter on the new nozzle is not as easy as i thinked. So many new problems. So much work and i don't forward in this project. Its a never ending story. Sometime i am relly tired, but someday all will work together. My plan was to install it till July, but at the moment, i think it October is better. Razz

yes there is a little pre-filter with 4mm holes on the pump, but i think this is not enough.

Ok lets go work ... have a nice weekend

Mario
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sun May 10, 2009 4:02 am

Take some pictures of your new work in progress..
And we can help out Wink haha

I know there is many problems.. but when you get tired and out of ideas !
Leave everything and start over the next day..

I have ordered 3 new pumps now !
And will start to mount 4 new nozzles :-)
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Tstevn on Sun May 10, 2009 8:30 am

Well i think i have an idea about that instability problem, i saw the same in my testsetup.
In my case its caused by the fact that the pump is located in the same body of water that the laminar reenters, causing small airbubbles to be fed back in the pump. If you are playing with cutters, its even worse. Every splash you make will accumulate more air in the system, so it will eventually lead to another splash.......
In a big body of water its not a problem tho, or try and do something like this.....
Use two buckets, one for reentry and one for pump, connect them together near the bottom with 2" tube.
That cured the problem for me, the air bubbles out in the reentry bucket and never makes it back through the pump.
Anyway, it look like you have a very nice clear laminar going, i dont think you will be able to get it much longer without any reentry sound at all. The slightest breeze will disrupt it anyway Arrow
Just my two bits scratch

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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sun May 10, 2009 1:32 pm

I did try to make another nozzle today (with some leftover I had) .
It was a smaller tube 6-7" i guess.

But I learn that size does mater, it strange how different result I got by only changing the size some inch !



bottom:


The big and the "not so big" one



here is the scary result:



Size does matter, as I use the same pump and same pressure !
But with the smaller pipe the water did go so high that it did hit the roof in my garage cheers

i will take this nozzle apart again and dump it !
But it was fun anyway, it did only take me 30 minutes to assemble everything from bottom to the top Wink

Btw: the solution with the screws seems to be perfect (so far)

Thanx for reading

Cheers
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  mrwebb on Sun May 10, 2009 2:02 pm

I think that if you had a bigger inlet and maybe at bigger pump on you would get the same result
on your big version, but hey thats just a thought.
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sun May 10, 2009 2:09 pm

mrwebb wrote:I think that if you had a bigger inlet and maybe at bigger pump on you would get the same result
on your big version, but hey thats just a thought.

Maybe true !
But I did not think that the size of the nozzle had so much to do with the throw length\height on the water !!
I did believe that the output size on the brass ring was what decide the length of the water..

Now I know that all my 4 nozzles need to be the exact same size !!
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sun May 10, 2009 11:30 pm

Tstevn wrote:Well i think i have an idea about that instability problem, i saw the same in my testsetup.
In my case its caused by the fact that the pump is located in the same body of water that the laminar reenters, causing small airbubbles to be fed back in the pump. If you are playing with cutters, its even worse. Every splash you make will accumulate more air in the system, so it will eventually lead to another splash.......

Thank you so much for your input, i will test it today, really clever, i didn't think on that. Thanks for sharing.
Mario
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sun May 10, 2009 11:41 pm

liteglow wrote:I did try to make another nozzle today (with some leftover I had) .
It was a smaller tube 6-7" i guess.
But I learn that size does mater, it strange how different result I got by only changing the size some inch !
Cheers
Thanks for Posting your Pictures. Strange, such much difference. The best is really rebuild exact your old nozzle then you got all you need. Smile
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Strange problem !

Post  liteglow on Sat May 16, 2009 5:09 am

I have talked about the strange problem in my water flow..
I have a film that show you the problem.
I does also use my Low-pass filter, but it does not remove the problem !!

here is the video:



The cool thing is that the phone refresh rate on the video (FPS) actually show the problem more clear..
It seems like the water is shaking\vibrating .

What can cause this problem ??
And what solution ..


Thanx for watching
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Tstevn on Sat May 16, 2009 12:29 pm

Hehehe looks kinda cool actually, but i guess not what you want Smile
Thats exactly the reason i use 3" of sponge material at the bottom, it looks to me as the water is rotating when it hits the straws and continue that way out the nozzle. Either that, or you have a straw alignment problem. Ive had that a few times, because i strap the straws together with tape (i think you do too) they end op not axial, but slightly rotated from bottom to top. Steffen came up with a fun idea, why not a square nozzle ??!?? Ill try and make one just for fun, but i have the feeling it will only be square to the top where gravity takes over......Anyway, i gotta see it lol

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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sat May 16, 2009 12:34 pm

Thanx for the tip..

Yes it`s true, I did also notice the problem with the straws rotating .
But I did mount the straws inside when the nozzle is lying down, and then I taped them!

I did some test today, I did hit the nozzle pretty hard, so the straws moves closer to the output.
Result was worse..

Then I hit the nozzle again so the straws goes down, far away from the output..
Result was pretty much allot better.
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  John on Sat May 16, 2009 3:11 pm

That is really odd! I don't know why! To me the water looks like it is a series of water spheres connected together. Is that right?
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  liteglow on Sat May 16, 2009 3:17 pm

John wrote:That is really odd! I don't know why! To me the water looks like it is a series of water spheres connected together. Is that right?

Yes what you see is correct .. but you only see that on the video !

But what happens is that the water is shaking very quick.
And the mobile phone is not able to record every frame, so the frame where the water is shaking the other way is not recorded..

Like when you recording a TV\monitor, you can see that you get black lines rolling :-) (hard to explain in english) ..


Anyway, after placing the straws more away from the output, the water was better !!
And I think adding a sponge filter on the bottom will "maybe" remove this problem (?) :-)
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Re: Liteglow`s laminar project

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sat May 16, 2009 11:47 pm

Yes, the "Right" Sponge will help, but take care to cover up the full surface under the straws, a one peace large sponge.

My Nozzle looks 100% the same when i use my Stepper motor as a vibration engine, like 100000 pearls glued together, the good thing, i only use this a s a disturbance engine and can turn it off ( ican send a picture as proof). A other thing you can test, some pumps likes to vibrating after a view minutes (a friend from Germany told me that), you said yours is also doing this, try to turn on and off, sometime it helms or hit the pump, maybe you can see a difference, just give a try to eliminate this part, also try a house hose, same effect?

With a little fine tuning everything will be good. If you use a metal mesh after the straws they hold 100 in place.

Mario
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