My 10th or so version......

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My 10th or so version......

Post  Tstevn on Fri May 08, 2009 1:59 pm

Wanted to share my final version after god knows how many experiments, well thats not all true because the final version(s) uses a stainless steel orifice instead of brass, but other specs are similar.

First of all, i had some design criteria to meet....

Has to be fully serviceable from top only, since final product will likely end up in concrete !
Will be installed in outdoor fishpond, WITH fish in it
Wanna see goldfish in my laminar stream (nope, just kidding)
Has to operate 99 % silent, not even splashing is allowed (so, no cut, at least for now)

With that in mind, work began.
So here we go, pictures is worth 1000 words.....





Stainless Steel tubing with welded bottom and tangent input



Bottom distance plate, 2mm aluminium perforated cut out with jig saw and metal blade



Cut like this with metal cutter, do not need to be very exact at all



Bend with pliers ending with something like this




Remove a few "bites" so that it will fit over input pipe



And install at the bottom as far down as it will go



Filters go on top, i use 1 coarse, 1 fine and again 1 coarse total 75 mm (3") and again pushed all the way down onto the aluminium plate





Straws going in except for 50mm (2") waterproof tape to keep it all together, turn around and repeat. It has to be a tight fit ! This is done so they can later be removed as a block. both ends of the block is then dipped 2,5 cm (1") into a ship lack/paint thinner bath to make the block of straws nice and robust



Its then ofcourse installed, measure to be sure its in the right place, leaving 50 mm (2") of empty space on top of the filters and the same to the top plates bottom



Top plate from inside, orifice flush mounted from the inside



And from the outside, bolts are there to assist removal if preassure won't do the job (its normally done with airpreassure , it simply pops open)



Thick 2,5 cm (1")material is used to allow two grooves to be made, then fitted with o-rings to make the seal.



Apply soap to inside edge of pipe (do NOT use oil or grease) and press the top in place flush with pipe, hopefully ending up with something like this Smile



And now is when i really would like something that will do video, but this will have to do for now.....



Next thing to do for me will be light, but thats still a work in progress.....
Like i said in the beginning, the final versions uses stainless steel orifices, its simple because i noticed that the laminar would get worse over time (months) because of the acid! in the fishwater Shocked
It would simply dull the sharp edge and the laminar would get noisy when the water reentered the pool. I dont think it will be a problem if clean water is used.
I will not state all measurements here, most of them can be found elsewhere in this EXCELLENT forum, but a few is different.....
Inlet pipe is only 20 mm (3/4") i think recommended is at least 25 mm (1") I dont see any problems because of it, i tried max distance for the fun of it and i got 6½ meter (?") before any breakup.
Im using 8 mm straws, i think most go for 6 mm. Again, i dont see any problems, but its a thing i want to test......
Pump is 22000 lph, enough to feed 3 of these with 14 mm "hole". Distance is about 3 metres, height about 1½ meter.
Only problem to be honest is the power consumption, pump uses 350W so im looking for something a bit more economical affraid

And now, stop reading and go construct something !!!!! Very Happy

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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  liteglow on Fri May 08, 2009 4:06 pm

Wow !!

First of all, I have stopped reading, but it`s hard to not looking at that pictures Very Happy

I think we have a winner here in the design Wink
Very very very nice nozzle you have build there..
you dont have the messy cutter and light connection etc..

But the nozzle itself was extremely nice Wink damn...
You reminds me of my ideas, as I did wonder how it would be to have a steel nozzle instead of PVC.
But then again, I dont know where to buy a steel pipe.

And second, you think the same as me about sound Cool I also like it 100% quiet ..
It`s so nice to just see the water "stand still" in the air with no sound haha...


But the TOP of your nozzle is a state of art !!
Very nice that you can remove the top without removing any silicone and stuff ? correct?

I just wonder, since you have that filter in bottom, and then you have the sponge\filter after..
Have you tried what happened if you remove the straws , and then do a test ??? (I`m very curious)


Thanx for sharing the great info, and thanx for the detailed info :-)
Now I not so sure if I can post any pictures of my nozzle haha... I think you have put the "standard" quite high now Rolling Eyes
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Tstevn on Sun May 10, 2009 8:07 am

Thank you for the nice "review", ill try to answer a few things.....
Like i said, this in by far my first attempt, ive tried 4" and 8" plastic tubes too, but was always nervous about longterm stability. Gf would simply kill me if i had to extract them from her flowerbed, so id better make it sturdy Smile
Yes, the top can be removed without any cutting and prying, just add 6 bars of compressed air to the inlet, and it will just pop off. The o-rings are a really tight fit to withstand the 2 bars of waterpressure.
I will try and get some metal mesh to test what it will do, i didnt so far. I doubt it will be better, only different.
Sure, if it could be sized down to maybe half and do the same job it would be interresting, but again i dont think that will be the case.
Im right now making a bigger version, just for the hell of it. 20" tubing and 1" orifice Very Happy Its of course just for fun, but i really want to know how far that thing will go before breaking up Question
I dont know how things look in Norway, but here tubing like that is used where they do dairy products, so go to a scrapyard and look for it there.
And, quite frankly, im a very impatient person so waiting around for silicone to dry is simply too much of a headache for me Laughing

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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Magic-nozzle on Wed May 13, 2009 4:14 am

WOW! Very nice work, the nicest nozzle i ever soah homemmade! Great! Congratulation. I wish i had the skill and the machines to build my one like this! I cant wait to see the 1" version. How did you build the top? i have a 250 x 550 mm lathe, mybe i am able to build a top like yours too, let you know me how this is constructed, Thank you so much. Keep on working ...
Mario
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  John on Wed May 13, 2009 11:13 am

How do you keep the straws, and the filters in place?
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Tstevn on Wed May 13, 2009 12:21 pm

Again, thanx for the nice words, blushing here Embarassed
Mario, with big enough lathe its quite easy, my tubes is exactly 20 cm inside so here goes....
Cut roughly some thich plastic ( i use 2,5 cm thick but you can use 1,5 cm) a bit bigger than the tube inside.
Drill center hole, big enough so you can get a hold of it in your lathe, maybe with a bolt through ?
I make it 40 mm so the lathe's jaws can get inside, but it will depend of your brass orifice, it will have to fit inside in the end.
Take the outside diameter down to 19,9 cm (or 1 mm smaller than the inside diameter of your tube inside diameter)
Use 4 mm toolbit, make 2 grooves in diameter close to the edges, 3 mm deep
Press or glue brass orifice in place
Fit 2 4 mm O-rings in grooves to make a tight seal
If you want, you can now put a few screws in there too from the outside, just to have something to pull on if you need it, but normally it will come apart just by applying airpressure at the inlet and sticking a finger in the outlet orifice.
Around 6 bars it goes pooooof Smile
Like i said, quite easy and easy to disassemble.
Ill do some detail pictures for you if you want ?
John, it all self retaining, top filter is really much too big so it will hold everything in place under, its quite stiff material.
Straws are glued together all so nothing will move and a really tight fit too.

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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  John on Wed May 13, 2009 12:32 pm

Wow! That's just amazing! What sort of glue are you using to solidify your straws?
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Tstevn on Wed May 13, 2009 2:19 pm

Well, its not glue really, i use a 50 % mixture of.... hmmm pushing my english here Smile ... Clear ship lack umm clear paint for wooden ships and paint thinner, making it a really thin solution, just dipping both ends of the "strawpack" in it about 1 inch and letting it dry overnight. Just remember to test the thinner on your straws first, i had a few "meltdowns" with certain thinners Shocked
It will still break apart if you force it, but handle with a bit of care and you have a pretty neat pack. It can later be removed as 1 piece for cleaning or whatever....
Im sorry for my less than perfect english, i hope you understand anyway lol!

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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  liteglow on Wed May 13, 2009 2:33 pm

your English seems perfect for me Smile (btw, if you download Google chrome there is English spelling built in, very helpful tool)

But I understand how you glue them together..
My concern is, does not the "glue\thinner" stick inside the straws, and maybe block them ?


I myself btw use normally duct tape to hold them together :-)
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  John on Wed May 13, 2009 2:34 pm

That's cool! I think the word you are looking for is lacquer.

Your designs are just amazing! A lot of trial and error I suppose, but they are great! How long have you been working on the laminar nozzles?
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Magic-nozzle on Thu May 14, 2009 12:26 am

Tstevn wrote:Again, thanx for the nice words, blushing here Embarassed
Mario, with big enough lathe its quite easy, my tubes is exactly 20 cm inside so here goes....
Cut roughly some thich plastic ( i use 2,5 cm thick but you can use 1,5 cm) a bit bigger than the tube inside.
Drill center hole, big enough so you can get a hold of it in your lathe, maybe with a bolt through ?

Thank You very much. Really nice. I think my lathe is too small to make grooves on the outside with a 200 mm plate.
Maybe i can try to buy a now tool (right sharpen) to make the groove from the side, that maybe works. Its a nice idea to use rubber Orings. and so easy to on and off. The whole nozzle is very nice to service.

Thanks for sharing
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Lindenmeyer on Thu May 14, 2009 6:00 am

hey, i really cant wait to see a video of it!! hurry! lol
nice work

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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Tstevn on Thu May 14, 2009 1:50 pm

Thnx for the tip, ill try and download it, i need help sometimes Smile
The lacquer/thinner mix (thnx for the word John Wink) will of course stick to the inside of the straws too, but its so thin a layer it doesnt matter at all. Theres no risk of that closing the holes at all, even with 3 mm straws. It adds maybe 1/100 of a milimeter to the wall thickness, and is not sticky at all after drying. As a matter of fact, its more smooth than the straws Smile
You are right john, these are not the first ones at all, as the topic mentions Very Happy Ive been playing with it for i guess 1½ year now, running 2 in my little pond for a while and learned a lot. After hotgluing and putting silicone and whatnot on plastic, i decided to go for steel because its so much more durable and easy to make permanent given the right tools of course....
I dont know how the weather situation is where you are, but here its like ... well lets just say not good for all year outdoor activities, so i also need something that can withstand frost and snow and ice.....
Ill be happy to do a bit of video when i get something that will actually do that. Also i need to finish my fish pool expantion, taking it from 3000 litres to around 10000.... The fish dont like the impact of the laminars, so i will provide them with more hiding space Smile Im not so lucky (LIKE OTHERS IN THIS FORUM Wink ) to use machines for the digging, so its me and my shovel and my wheelbarrow and my backache arrgghhhhh. I hope to finish it in like 2 weeks, then i will find some camcorder......

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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  John on Thu May 14, 2009 1:56 pm

Man, I'd come help if I could get a glance at your professional laminar jet (if the plane tickets were cheaper)!!!!! To bad we don't live closer together! Crying or Very sad

Did you weld all of your metals together yourself?

How much does the stainless steel tubing cost?

It is all once piece or is it welded?
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  liteglow on Thu May 14, 2009 2:34 pm

Hehe...
Tsteven: I wonder if you where talking about me when you mention machines Cool
As I already have had 3 different machines here not to dig up the stubs Laughing

An on Monday there will be 2 new machines here to dig up my driveway and prepare it for asphalt Wink

But back to topic..

I would love to se some pictures from you pond\fountain\garden !
(maybe you can make a new thread in the "garden" section of this forum)

I want to make a small pond in my garden, and have 4 laminar jets hit the pond (no fish) !
But I have some problems to decide how to build the pond and the laminar ..
Should the pump be in the pond, ore should they be in the same water-tank as the laminar (I wonder if the pump can create vibration) !
And is it safe to use 3-4 meters long hoses to the laminar jets.


well, thanx for help Smile
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  liteglow on Thu May 14, 2009 2:37 pm

Hmmm..
I just realized that I think I take my vacation to Legoland this summer Razz
And find your house... I can help in the garden, and for payment hmmz.. just give me 1-2 laminar nozzles Very Happy haha
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  John on Thu May 14, 2009 2:55 pm

Sure you can have 3-4 meters of tubing (~13ft). You just have to make sure that you take into account the loss pressure due to the length of the pipe any angles etc. My understanding is the larger and the straighter the less pressure loss. Or you just make sure that you have a big enough pump!!! Idea

As far as having the pump in the center or not. Can't say, but my current testing setup is similar to that. Just make sure that the water doesn't land too close to the pump because then the system becomes unstable and it make a MESS! The water will oscillate back and forth slowly (depending on the size of your filter). It will be just fine until the water hits the pump then the pump won't be able to pump enough for some reason (not sure maybe it messes up the intake flow), then the nozzle will drop considerably and then slowly get back to it's normal size. When it does the water starts to hit the pump again, and the cycle starts all over.

It's pretty neat to see once and a while when you are testing, but you don't want that to happen in your fountain all the time. Smile
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  liteglow on Thu May 14, 2009 3:00 pm

Yes John, I think you are correct... thanx for the info Smile

I will try to NOT have the pump in the same place as the laminar hit..
But on the other way, is it safe to have the pump and the laminar in the same tank.
What will happened if the pump create shaking that ruin the laminar nozzle (nozzle need to stand 100% still)
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  John on Thu May 14, 2009 3:02 pm

hmmmm....Very good point! Question Yes! I've learned that the nozzles are very sensitive. Hmmmm....sounds like we need to test that!

Maybe if I get a second this weekend, I'll try that.
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Tstevn on Sat May 16, 2009 11:38 am

Of course i was not talking about you ohh master of the forum Wink Wink Wink What on earth would make you think that hehehehe. the truth is, im deeply jealous lol!
If your summer activities should take you to Denmark, please let me know, im 1½ hour from Legoland so it not that much of a detour ! And yes, you are very welcome ! That goes for you too John if you should ever get the chance !

Id sure like to make a "my garden" topic, but for now its only this



I need it another 20 cm deep but otherwise done, notice my advanced machinery in there uffff affraid
And no, its not nice soft sand in the bottom, its very sticky clay ! My target was 10000 litres, but i think i will settle for less, this is just too hard lol!

John, i dont know what the tubing really cost, i always find pieces left from different jobs so i get them for a few beers or such..... Im a computer tech servicing servers and such, it gives me the oppotunity to "know ppl" in many different jobs, it all helps Wink
Its all in pieces, bottom lasercut and then welded on, same goes for inlet pipe. Ill try and ask what it would really cost, i dont think it would be that expensive really. I do the work myself, they provide tools and parts Smile
I have a very good friend who happens to own a large machine factory operating only cnc machinery, i cannot run them myself but i make the programs for them at home using solidworks, the rest is done by more beers Smile

About pump placement and such .... Look at how ppl are doing garden ponds and especially filters....
I will use a large 110 mm (4½") bottom drain in the pond naturally leading water to some watertight container that will hold filters, pumps and other installations. Ill post some pics of course when i get to that.

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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  liteglow on Sat May 16, 2009 12:17 pm

WOW... that is one damn big hole in the ground affraid

the hole there is almost half the size of my garden lol Razz


I did wonder about making a container to place all my 4 pumps and filters together..
But because of my small garden, I don't find anywhere to place it..
So the only solution so far is to place the pump in the same container as where the nozzle will be placed.
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sat May 16, 2009 11:53 pm

WOW, Like a swimming pool! All dig by your own hands? Yes! Respect, this is the next part i have to doo, i sway between rent some guys doing this for me or do it by my self. But it looks very nice!
Cheers Mario
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Re: My 10th or so version......

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sat May 16, 2009 11:54 pm

liteglow wrote:WOW... that is one damn big hole in the ground affraid

the hole there is almost half the size of my garden lol Razz


I did wonder about making a container to place all my 4 pumps and filters together..
But because of my small garden, I don't find anywhere to place it..
So the only solution so far is to place the pump in the same container as where the nozzle will be placed.

Filip, bevore you put the pump and the nozzle in a small container together, plese test it, i think you will have big problems. Crying or Very sad
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