My Project

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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:39 pm

New light effect -View My Video
Latest shutter priority photo - stream is 14 feet out and around 8 feet high

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Re: My Project

Post  Atmoz on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:55 am


Wow, that's bright!!
Very nice Cool

This is my first post at this magnificent forum.
The last day's I've learned a lot from you people (John, Mario, liteglow, covewi, etc...)
I want to thank you for all the nice pictures, videos and information that you post.

With kind regards,

Atmoz

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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:38 pm

My little Aria fountain

View My Video


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Re: My Project

Post  Atmoz on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:26 am


Wow, looks very nice!!

Where the 2 water-beams are coming together there is this water field?
Or how does it work?

Greets,

Atmoz

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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:16 pm

A newly polished fiber optic cable has produced these dusk photos - I have not seen the stream this bright before it got totally dark outside.
These are just snapshots - not time elapsed photos.



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My project

Post  JohnJarvis on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:18 am

Great pictures! What do you use to polish the fibre optic?

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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm

I, along with many others on the forum, will wet sand the fiber ends starting around 240 grit and working up in 5 or 6 steps to around 3000 grit - depending what you can find.
I then use a liquid car buffing solution and then a wax - both are applied using a buffing wheel in a hand drill or drill press - Magic Nozzle - I believe uses a plexiglass polish.

Take your time and don' t rush - its worth the time - good luck.

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Re: My Project

Post  liteglow on Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:52 am

that is impressive pictures Smile

lol I only cut my optic fibers with a cutter, and that`s it Razz
Guess I could have better light if I polish them .... next year Razz
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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:50 pm

Could someone explain why this is happening.

If you look at the #1 drawing you can see a simple set up with a "Tee" to divert water to both fountains. I used the valve (on the right) to control the flow to the
second fountain to vary its height. With this setup #1 fountain has about twice the height as the #2 fountain when the valve is all the way open. So I can never get
both streams the same size.

However if I switch things up - like the second drawing - which is basically the opposite of the first setup - the streams are equal in size with the valve open and now I can
vary the size of fountain #1.

Whats the difference - it makes no sense to me.


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Re: My Project

Post  John on Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:25 pm

If you have a spare piece of pvc pipe around try this. Take a tube and close off one end. Drill some holes and even lengths along the tube (so that it resembles a recorder/flute). Hook the hose up to the pvc pipe and what you get is water shooting from each of the holes, but the first one will be significantly more then the last. Essentially the pressure isn't equal. I'm trying to find some pictures of an example but it is much more difficult than I expected.

Essentially you need to have a valve at each jet in order to throttle them to the same height.
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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:50 pm

Whats the biggest factor that creates a stream to breakup ( the last 2-3 inches) after 8.0 feet.
Is it pump jitter?
Is it low pump output?
Your thoughts?

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Re: My Project

Post  John on Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:02 am

This has been one of the most interesting parts of the stream in my opinion.

I think the largest factor is the pump jitter. However, assuming that you had a perfect pump with absolutely no pump jitter I think you would still see some break-up at some point and time. From what I understand the crystal clear water coming from the fact that everything is moving at exactly the same speed and in the same direction. The same pricipal that makes the fountains laminar also makes the stream destroyed in the end. The straws are there to create a fully developed flow (nice parabola shape). Once the water leave the straws all of the parabolas mix up and make an average flow over the entire surface. Now it looks more flat across the surface. Then it get shot out. Assuming that the flow is flat after it is shot out is a big assumption but it will work for now. Eventually just like the water flowing through the tube the air puts drag on the outside of the water. So just like in the straws eventually the get the parabola in the end. Which will destroy the stream. There are a lot of assumptions in there and it is just a guess. I would love to spend some more time testing my different theories.

I'm not sure what you mean by "low pump output"
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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:04 pm

I was thinking along the lines of the GPH being low. I don't believe I have anywhere near 1200 GPH with my 2.5 HP pool pump for one fountain and I am trying to run two.
If I get a fountain pump that outputs around 3000-4000 GPH I should be able to run 2 fountains. What do you think.

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Re: My Project

Post  John on Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:08 pm

My goal for my fountains are to have them be around 10-20 gallons per minute per nozzle. I calculated that once, but I can't find my calculations any more. In my opinion it's better to be at the 20gpm and then throttle it down to get the size and quality of arc that you want.
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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:57 pm

John - thanks.

I also need to make the pump "asynchronous" so I can vary the arc output electronically.

Thanks again .

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About the Pictures

Post  scrafy on Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:49 pm

Hello,

I loved your nozzle, it's just too good, can't have enough of it.

I have a question. I noticed that the water stream looked very bright in the pictures but rather dim in the video. Does it have to do with the video camera? How does the stream look in real person at night, like in the pictures or in the video?

Thanks for taking the time to post all those messages. I'd love to be able to someday build something 1/10th as cool as your nozzle.

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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:42 am

Its actually somewhere in between - if that helps ... In person its bright ... the auto exposure photo does enhance it some... but the video does not do it justice.


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Inspiring

Post  searcher on Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:15 pm

Covewi, Your 40 LED and under-deck mounting of the nozzle is fantastic. I am planning out and assembling parts to build a system like yours during a pool rebuild next Spring. I will share photos of the build over the next month or so (and I am sure I will be peppering you with questions along the way). Thank you for your detailed description of your project to this point - it is super helpful

Cal
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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:23 pm

Thanks for your kind words - if I can be of any help let me know - I learned so much from reading almost every post
on this forum. Good luck.

I only have 18" below my deck to fit my fountain. No room for a cutter assembly to fit below the deck - what to do?

I took apart my fountain this weekend and cut down the 7 " straws to 3.5". This extra 3.5 inches will give me around 6 inches
to fit a cutter into the main fountain tube without an extension section while still having the fountain below the deck.

I really dont know how the fountain will work with such a short section of straws - Zachary (on youtube) builds a 6 " diameter
fountain with 3" straws and gets a great looking laminar flow - so hopefully I can accomplish the same. Until tomorrow.

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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:07 pm

Well I cut the 7 inch straws down to 3.5 inches and here is how my fountain is now laid out. This now allows me about 6 inches above the top plate to
fit in a cutter mechanism without adding an extension.

Another benefit of knowing this is that we can make short (12") long laminar fountains that are 8 inches in diameter.


(from top to bottom)
nozzle
2" open space
screen
3.5 inch straws
stainless steel perforated sheet
1 inch open space
2 inches filter foam
stainless steel perforated sheet
2 inches open space
bottom plate

I am very happy - the attached photo is a stream 11 feet in length and 4.5 feet high.
So cutting the straws length in half has NOT effected the laminar flow.



So here's a question I need help with. Both my fountains are below the water level of my pool when installed - the nozzle would be almost level with the pool water level.
If I am cutting the laminar stream and directing it - down and out of the upper section - the water can not be directly fed back into the pool - since its below the water level

Any ideas of how to feed the "cut" water back into the pools circulation.?

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getting the water back to the filter

Post  searcher on Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:48 pm

covewi, I have been working through the same problem while planning my nozzles for around a pool. I was going to put the nozzles above the pool level, but I like the "below deck" look much better. My solution to get the cutter drain water back to the filter inlet was to collect the water from below the cutters and pipe all the diverted water back to a vertical pipe (i.e. 3" dia) near the skimmer (the pump would have to be running while the nozzles are on). On the vertical pipe, below the level of the cutter drain, and above the inlet to your pump, there will be a reducer (say down to 1" or less) with a racquetball or similar ball that will float. If the upper end of the vertical 3" pipe is open and water is draining into the pipe, the ball will float and the water will be sucked into the bottom of the pipe that is joined (Tee) to the pump inlet. When the water is drawn down the ball will seal the bottom of the 3" pipe. The hydraulic theory that may cause a problem is if the suction on the pump T inlet is greater than the buoyancy of the ball. If the hole at the bottom of the 3" pipe is kept small (meaning the contact area of the hole sealing against the ball) then I am hoping the ball will float when the water level is high enough to cause the ball to float off of the "valve seat". Then the suction of the pump will draw the water down and the cycle repeats. Since the drains from the cutter are below the water level in the skimmer, then you will also need a seal face at the upper portion of the vertical pipe so water does not flow back into the nozzles. I need to draw this up, my description sounds a bit confusing.

Anybody out there with more plumbing experience than me think that will work?



Link to a sketch (not my best work) - pdf file:
https://files.me.com/cal.vansant/xy0mtm


Last edited by searcher on Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add pdf file)
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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:24 pm

I have not been heating the pool for 3 weeks now and have noticed an improvement in the quality of the laminar stream.
I wonder if the viscosity of the water has increased (due to the colder temp - about 25 degrees colder ) and has effected the
steam in a positive way.

The stream appears more uniform (solid) than before.

Thoughts.

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Re: My Project

Post  bva_bonda on Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:20 am

Hello Covewi. Can you reload photos from this post:

Re: My Project

covewi on Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:37 pm

A couple of little videos shows the water injector at work.
The first is just a close up of the water droplet hit the stream
http://tinypic.com/r/23r1uvq/4
The next is a top view show the injector and the disturbance moving up the stream
http://tinypic.com/r/mt2iqh/4
The last is a view of the tube connecting to the injector and a view of the stream with the disturbance...the metal piece on the hose is just something to hold a "bend" in the hose to control the water flow - just a prototype
http://tinypic.com/r/j7rl8z/4

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Re: My Project

Post  covewi on Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:38 pm

I visited the Fox Valley Mall in Aurora Illinois last week and guess what they had center court. A Wet Design fountain.

http://tinypic.com/r/4r9qhz/7

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I am still here

Post  covewi on Sun May 22, 2011 5:06 pm

I finally woke up from a long winter and late spring here in the Chicago area. But I did get around to opening the pool and making some
plans for hooking up the fountains.

I need to purchase two high power CPU cooling fans to keep the 40 LED's cool and make a proper holder for the fiber optic cables.
No cutter this summer I want to get the lighting just right and sit back and enjoy the fountains this summer.

I may work on the compressed air shooter tough.


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Re: My Project

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