electronics

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electronics

Post  John on Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:41 am

I've been using the SN754410 h-bridge to control my stepper motor, but am finding out that I may not have a good enough heat sink to use this chip.

Mario what do you use to control your stepper motor?

Anyone have any suggestions as to what to use to control a 4 wire bipolar stepper motor?


Last edited by John on Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: electronics

Post  Jerry on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:57 pm

Hey John ,
Here is a link to the company I'm using to obtain a driver that i can use to drive the micro stepper i have. http://www.ams2000.com/index.html

driver name I'm using
DCB-241 $ 125.00

Manual for dcb-241

http://www.ams2000.com/pdf/manuals/dcb241ma.pdf

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Re: electronics

Post  Magic-nozzle on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:12 pm

Hi John

What 125 for a driver! i pay 50 USD.
I use this great Board for my Stepper. With this chip L298 a stepepr driver and L297 a Motor driver (Bridge) you can controll the current by a potentiometer, and its perfect for every Stepper up to 2A. With just 3 wires you controll all the functions. Enable/disable, Direction, and Step. For me, the perfect soution and so easy tu use.

http://www.shop.robotikhardware.de/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=177

Here is the partlist and Layout for the pcb. Easy to build. I have 2 of them, verry happy no heat problems, just a little cooler is enough.

http://www.robotikhardware.de/download/rnstepp297.pdf

There are many solutions for a stepper, but a driver with a curent regulation seems perfect for aour project.
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Re: electronics

Post  Jerry on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:47 pm

Mario,
yes you are right that is a nice driver and pot you are using.For the record I don't know a lot about these things.
One of the aspects of the dcb-241 driver I like is that it can be controlled by rs232 then programed by my computer and uses computer memory to run different cut effects and timed triggers on multiple steppers. So the same driver can controls 8 different motors . and comes put together plug and play. I'm also using micro Hybrid steppers that have no literature about them. but I have an abundance of them.

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Re: electronics

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:03 am

Jerry, that sounds intetresting, very easy to use and controll 8 Motors! You mean, 2steppers or 8 Motors, right? OK 150 not a lot for such a cool board. You must know, i dont know much about Electronics, but enough to work with Microcontrollers and all you need arround it. the Internet is great for research in electroinic stuff .. I Love it.
Is your cutter woring right now, or still in progress? This is really the hrdest part of all, i still have not a Perfect uncut, and still problems with splashing water. But its ok now, i would like to have a nicer Uncut, but i am tired in testing testing testing. The problem is my Stream is about 13 foot, the pressure is very high for that distance. If i have a lower pressure, the cut uncut looks close to perfect, but with high pressiure, damn ... not easy. Maybe one day i will rent a OSE Jumping Jet, there is one here arround me, for 200 USD a day, and i will open it and look how they do the cutter and water splash removement. Smile

Good luck
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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:37 pm

This company has a new LED driver / dimmer that is controlled by DMX.
It looks good and would certainly fit our needs.

http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main_menu=Products&pn=71003&show=description

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Re: electronics

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:56 am

Ohh this is a nice controller. But if you plan tu use Luxeon 3W leds, there is not enough power to drive the Red one.

Look here:
http://www.luxeonstar.com/luxeon-iiis-stars-c-24_43.php

Red needs 1400mA for full light, we really need all the power we can get in the fibers, specially the red one looks darker than the others. My self made driver makes 1.25A, but maybe i will change it to 1,4 A. Just a thaugt ...
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Re: electronics

Post  liteglow on Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:43 am

I have 2 RED Luxeon LED that is connected in serial directly into my LiPoly battery 7,4 Volt 800mAh !
The light is incredible bright cheers

But the funny thing is that I never used any driver Razz strange that the LED is not dead !
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Re: electronics

Post  Magic-nozzle on Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:55 am

Hi Filip, yes, thats because your led light runs at 800ma, the led can load up to 1400 ma each, close as dubble as bright as it is now! Its a big difference. You can run it at 1A no problem, just the brightness! And i think its very important in that game, if i could find 5W red, i would change my RGB leds, but there is nothing on the market.
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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:55 pm

The 3W red, green and blue LED's that I purchased stated in the specs that each required 700ma. Thats not the max is it?
Can I run them around 1 A ?

Thanks

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Re: electronics

Post  John on Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:54 pm

I emailed the tech support at Led Dynamics, the maker of the rebel endor. It was very enlightening.. I'm using the rebel endor rgb led. It states that they should be operated at 750mA.

Basically what the email below states is that, it IS POSSIBLE to over drive the leds, but not recommended. If you over drive the leds you will get extra light at a higher cost in HEAT! HEAT WILL KILL THE LEDs (or any electronics for that matter). You must make sure that the heat is getting dissipated out of the led. The high output leds REQUIRE a heatsink. I'm not sure what you would need to do if you overdrive them. Overdriving the led's will also shorten the life of the led. However, the LED's are rate for something liked 100,000 hours. Which means you could keep them on day and night for something like ten years. The stated values in the datasheets are the manufactures recommended value for optimal life and flux.

EMAIL BELOW.

Dear John Christensen,
According to the LED manufacturers data sheet the maximum continuous drive current is 700mA for the Red and 1000mA for the Blue and Green. As the LED Junction heat's up the LED produces less light. If the junction heats up too much you will shorten the lifetime of the LED. That being said if you can manage to keep the LED cool you can achieve a higher luminous flux that is listed.

When you start talking about increasing the drive current above 1A, the light output increase vs the power input increase is not very good. Even going from 700mA to 1A you increase your power by roughly 40% and only see a 10-15% increase in light output, if you can manage the thermals.

It would be better to drive the LEDs at 700mA and see how cool you can keep them to achieve higher light outputs. If you still need more light it would be better, although more costly to use more LEDs at a lower drive current. Feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.
Regards,

Mike

LEDdynamics Technical Support
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Re: electronics

Post  Magic-nozzle on Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:33 am

Thats interesting, its the first time i hear about that. I use a big aluminium cooler and a fan mounted on it, its just hand warm during hi power driving, thts good!

The Luxeon 3W Leds will not longer manufactured, but similar or better are the Seoul Leds
http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-Seoul/-3.5W-Seoul-LEDs-c_121_78.html

The luxeon rebel has a 160 Deg output, thats bad, the soeul has 130 Deg thats perfect.
Less Power 700mA, also the red one and green and blue 1000mA, but more light power than the Luxeons, amazing!
thats Grat!

Using more Leds is not really usefull for us, we are limmited by the area of the fibers.
I relly can not recomend less than 3W for each color. As i know, the "RGB" leds on the market have not that power you will need if you plan to use fiber cables. What you can do to enhance the light, build a own big light transmitter from plexiglass like OASE do and mount the inside the nozzle, also the leds, this way you can use less power.
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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:00 pm

Okay I have made the led power supply circuit and it works - but I would like to measure the ma at each LED to see where I am and if there is any need for improvement.
How do I measure the ma for the circuit using the lm317

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Re: electronics

Post  John on Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:47 pm

Do you have a multimeter?

To measure the current the electricity has to flow through the multimeter.

1. Get your multimeter.
2. Switch it to mA/A (or amps or amperage).
3. Make sure that your multimeter will be able to handle the expected amps (in this case it's probably 1250mA or max 1500mA)
4. To measure the amps you have to use your multimeter to complete the circuit. It can be before or after the LED.
5. Plug in the power and turn the circuit on.
6. Look at the mutlimeter to see what amps are being drawn.

For example:
Turn you circuit on make sure everything is working. Turn it off and disconnect the power. Disconnect one side of the LED like the side that goes to ground (let's say this wire is black). Take that black wire and connect it to the red terminal to your multimeter. Now the circuit is almost complete all you need to do is just connect the black terminal of your multimeter to ground. This will complete the circuit. Now all you have to do is turn power back on. The LED will turn on and you will be able to read how many amps are being drawn.

NOTE: Since this is a constant current circuit you don't need to have the LED in the circuit.
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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:43 pm

An interesting patent with light and control ciruits

http://www.google.com/patents?id=9zUFAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:47 pm

An interesting patent with light and control circuits

http://www.google.com/patents?id=9zUFAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

A fountain shutter

http://www.google.com/patents?id=ZV4QAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:49 pm

Check out all these great relay systems
http://www.ecrater.com/filter.php?store_id=115086

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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:02 am

What do I need to know about stepper motors, controllers and software to make a cutter?
I would assume that I need a control board ( is there stand alone software to control) it or do I need to program), what kind, and size of motor do I need?

Any help would be great. Otherwise I am looking at making a cutter using solenoids and a relay control system.

Thanks

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Re: electronics

Post  John on Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:31 am

If you are planning on using one of those relay boards as your controller device then you probably want to use something else like a dc motor and make sure you have a hard stop (physical stop) to make sure the blade is in the right spot. Or use a similar approach as liteglow and use some solenoids. With those relay boards I think that is your best option. Stepper motors are great but they can be difficult to control. I don't know your level of experience with electronics. There are several different types of stepper motors, but the one I am using is a bipolar 4 wire stepper motor. The size is Nema 17.

If you are going to use the relay board with a stepper motor then you will have to create some additional circuitry to control the stepper. I'm not sure how that would work just yet.
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Re: electronics

Post  covewi on Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:21 am

I really think that the solenoids with the relay setup is probably going to work best for my experience level.

Our local science (junk) store sells a few nice tubular soleniods. I need to get one and start playing around.
Is it best to have the solenoind acuated (pulled in) and the hole open and then the spring pulls the lever over the hole when the solenoid is released or the other way around? Does it really matter?

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Re: electronics

Post  John on Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:34 am

Solenoids would be a great place to start.

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16939

Here is a great place to buy some electronics, it's pretty cheap. I purchased a couple of these solenoids and I liked them. You need to know that solenoids can overheat it they are constantly being energized. There are some that don't, but I didn't delve too much into that at the time. What I did was I used 2 solenoids, 1 for cut and 1 for uncut. I like that and the results that I got were about the same as what I am currently getting with the stepper motor. The blade mechanism is a lot more complex but I'm sure you can get one to work that way.

Mario, built his own push/pull solenoid that seems to work really well. Essentially it was two solenoids on one tube. That's something you may want to consider. Solenoids are really easy to make all you need is magnetic wire or speaker wire. You can get that from Radio Shack, a tube, and a iron/steel core to use as your push/pull rod. Just FYI
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Re: electronics

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