What Pump to use ?

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What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:25 am

Ok I start a new thread..

I want to find out how much flow we need ..
Let me know the diameter of your output (in mm) !
And how big pump you use, I did try a 2500 Ltr\hr pump..

I did find this (I know it`s a Norwegian page, but it`s a 18000 ltr pump.
Maybe I can use that on 2 laminar jets (maybe 4?)

http://www.tropex.no/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3149

The price will be less If I use ONE pump, and not 4 pumps...
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  John on Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:17 am

I made a spreadsheet that would calculate the height and length of the arc based on the flow input, how many nozzle you wanted. Unfortunitly my computer crash and I lost it. I could make it up again since I have a screen shot of it on my blog.

It also had the equations for head loss in the pipes.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:35 am

Does the input size in the nozzle matter ?

I guess if it`s bigger, less change for turbulence..
But If the input is smaller than the output... what will happen?

Do I need to have a big input on my nozzle, and smaller output?


I just notice on every picture it seems like everyone have a BIG beam.. but I only have a 10mm beam in diameter .. hmm
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:43 am

I think you should have the dubble of the output on the input. 1" = 2,5 cm. I use a 1/2" output and a 1 1/4 in. If the inlet is smaller, my you got problems. All the pros are working with at least 1" in.

Next week i have my new pump in the house, a OASE Neptun 5000. 5000lt per hour, enough for 1 nozzle. Hope i can elimiate the rest of the Pump jutter.

If someone needs a pump 11'000 lt./hour. plese let me know. Its full stainless pump 220V. I pay 80 $. you can get it for 40$ if someone needs it.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  John on Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:37 pm

I'm excited to see what your new stream will look like with the new pump. Isn't that the pump that they recommend for the OASE nozzles?
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:08 am

Yes this is the one. OASE don't use a Low pass filter and have a great arch in all the OASE videos.
They recommend the Neptun 6000, and is for use with 2 Nozzles according the manual.
I buy a Neptun 5000 (in the states they called Nautilus xx)

The technical sheet says, 5000 lt / hour or 1320 GPH (22GPM), the 6000 is 6000 lt / hour or 1585 GPH.
I hope this smaller and less expensive will work, because the pump delivers the best contnius stream at full power and i have a small arch. I can also can control the water flow direct on the Pump. I played 230$, new its about 350$. I am sure its much better than my 30$ pump i use now.

FUNNY: Yesterday Evening i made some new cutter tests, with the whole Kitchen spoons and tools in the Garden, the neighbors was thinking i am crazy! barbecue with a water stream ... Laughing
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  John on Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:47 am

That's funny, because I was doing the same thing!! I grabbed anything I could to "cut the water" I did find something that might work a little bit better, but I can't be sure until I make a working prototype.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:28 am

Laughing
I woud give something to see mr John in the garden with tools and spoons¨.

I did several tests and i mean, speed is important, but you cant eliminate the nose, make it smaller yes. But for my part, a little nose is ok, but not a big one like now. I found that the bigger the knife is, and rounded edges the better it works. Flat and slightly tilted is a good. something like a spoon doesn't help. The Second problem is the vibration. Best would be mount the Nozzle and the cutter separate. also a R o t a r y s o l e n o i d s can be helpful eliminating the vibrations. As i know the Pro's are using this type of magnets. http://www.ltn.ch/uploads/tx_ttproducts/datasheet/Rot_standard_e.pdf

A simple cutter with a Rotary solenoid




What you mean about this kind of cutter?

A company in Germany sales this ones.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:31 am

That was a very interesting cutter !!
But it seems big ??

I dont want my nozzle to be any more bigger in size (up) ..
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:38 am

After reading the PDF, the round solenoid dont seem to be "that" big..
I would like to try out one of this ...

I dont know if it have the speed? but it would for sure help out on the mounting..


But where to buy ? and what about the price..
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  John on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:43 am

That's a great idea, and the solenoid look like it will be easier to mount.

Question: I don't understand what the max time on is. I would hate to buy something like that and then burn it out because I kept the solenoid on too long.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:44 pm

I did last year some research for this solenoids.

What i found out, but not 100% on everything is:

Point 1, Expensive, good one 100$
Point 2, they don't like water, creating a water sealed place for it:
Point 3, You cant hold the power permanent on the coil (Max Time)(see pdf of yours)
Point 4, this rotary coil needs cooling when hardly used
Point 5, mounting on Picture one is not possible, water splash is too strong ... Problems.
Point 6, the use a back spring, adjustable

Over all, similar Problems like now, but stronger, better and faster i think, less vibration.
I will try some changes on my actual one, when i don't have any success i maybe try this one.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:05 am

I really driving crazy with this cutter, made more tests, i isolate mechanically complete the cutter from the nozzle. Now its better, just a little nose. The problem is to mount it like this, i made a test setup but don't know really how to install. A rotary coil would be easier because not that strong shaking. But build all NEW!

Here 2 interesting Pictures from 2 manuals of Cutoff mechanisms:

just for a view days, then i will remove the 2 pics, its illegal to copy pictures and post it.
The red part is the knife i think, bit not 100% sure.

What you think about this techniques?



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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:44 am

dont remove the pictures hehe Razz
But I have the pictures on PFD.. so no problem..

Anyway, it`s a very intresting setup they use there !
I wonder why there is 2 sets of wires ??
One on the top "module" .. and one set of cables on the other module that is mounted under?

is there 2 cutter?
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:25 am

The upper picture, the under cable is the solenoid knocker, not many details, unfortunately.
If I would know a dealer in my country that have the oase Jumping jet in stock, i would pay a lot just for having a close look inside. OK, hahhahaha, lets buy one together and rebuild it, Yes 1900 $ and we know all the secrets! Really, i am close to do this.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:43 am

Now i am really off topic, not a pump but a working cutter. I made my cutter today new, not all but important parts and several changes. Remove some vibration, diferent blade, some changes on the Programming. Results are good for me at the moment. Yes its a little nose there and a little vibration in the stream after the uncut but it was never better than now, i am happy. But now i have to seal the cutter agan with silicone, hope this will not change something in the stream or uncut.

Have Fun

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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  John on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:19 am

Someday, just someday I hope I can approach you level of nozzleness. You are the master nozzlist!

It's looking very good. I'm very impressed. I'm working on a different design that I hope to have working by the end of the week. Maybe we will see some different results.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  Magic-nozzle on Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:16 pm

Thank you Very Happy
But i am really impressed about your stream, for sure, its better than mine, i am really jealously. I don't know what it is, but you are a master too. Today my new pump The Oase neptun 5000 should arrive .. cant wait to test. Wow, a new cutter design, cant wait to see pictures or a Video. Hopefully you have luck and blast us away! bounce
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NEW CUTTER IDEA

Post  Magic-nozzle on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:50 am

Yes yes yes, my new Pump is here! WOW, the Oase Neptun 5000 is perfect for our Project! The stream is Stable as never before, i can control the power by adjust a lever on the pump. Its much better than with a controller, less problems, If you need to control your Pump power, you just need to add a inlet slider, regulate how much water come in. The Neptun has this future in the pump integrated, and works perfect. I can very recommend the Neptun 5000 or 6000. Enough Power for 2 smaller Nozzles 1/2" outlet and needs just 80Watt. The stream is now similar perfect like John's, but the bigger low pass filter of John makes a better job than my small one, maybe i will build a larger one.

NEW CUTTER:
I have a brilliant Idea for a new noiseless, Powerful and Fast Cutter. A Stepper Motor, got mine one from a old canon Printer. Look the video, Puhh amazing fast! No Noise and just a little vibration. I Really think about try this one. The only problem is to mage it watertight. What you think about one of this?


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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:48 am

Magic-nozzle wrote:The upper picture, the under cable is the solenoid knocker, not many details, unfortunately.
If I would know a dealer in my country that have the oase Jumping jet in stock, i would pay a lot just for having a close look inside. OK, hahhahaha, lets buy one together and rebuild it, Yes 1900 $ and we know all the secrets! Really, i am close to do this.

1900$ total ?
Or is that for each ? Wink


sounds interesting if you ask me...
I have had the same idea in my head for a long time also..
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  John on Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:55 am

but that would take away all of the fun of thinking of our own solutions and reverse engineering what they did! Just take that $1900 dollars, and develop your own cutter! You could buy a decent CNC mill with that amount of money.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:57 am

heh heh..

But reverse engineering usually include to take apart some components Razz

Yes it`s funny to make them myself, but it would be helpful if we had some inside information Wink
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:32 pm

Hi there folx..

Today I was at the store and get some Lexan plastic glass to use as a top.
And I was thinking about the RING that need to be so perfect on the output.

Why have nobody tried to use glass ?
I talked to the "glass dude", and he said there was absolutely no problem to cut a 8" circle of glass.
And then drill a 12mm hole in it (in the middle) , and then drill it with a cone from both ends to make the surface PRETTY darn thin Smile

I would think that the end result will be much better than a metal ring ?
Because glass is usual 1000% clear on the edges...
And the price for everything is like 20$ total.

any input about this idea ?
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  John on Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:36 pm

That would be AWESOME! I would love to try that. If you want I will contribute to that cause. I'll send you my dimensions of the pipe.
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Re: What Pump to use ?

Post  liteglow on Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:38 pm

John wrote:That would be AWESOME! I would love to try that. If you want I will contribute to that cause. I'll send you my dimensions of the pipe.

Nice Wink
I did maybe think that using a glass plate not would be any success (becouse, why dont Oase use it then....) !

But in my head, I would think that a glass drilled hole must be perfect Very Happy
I will do a test on it next week..

I will call them on Monday and have them to drill a test for me.
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