Greeting from Spain!

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Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:18 pm

Hi all!
I was lurking some days around here and am very impressed by the amazing projects, the willing to share and the great sense of humor of you all guys.
This is really a nice forum so I wish to introduce myself and become an active member… here we go…

Although I am living in Spain I am Italian by blood and nationality but I was born in Argentina.
The water always attracted my attention… it is and amazing fluid. I can remember me myself in my childhood playing with a spoon under the water coming from the kitchen faucet. What a marvel that clear bell shaped flow of water was!
When I arrived to Barcelona was surprised by the beauty of the Montjüic Magic Fountain designed by the engineer Carlas Buïgas for the Universal Exhibition in 1929.
Later on I received an e-mail form a friend showing a Bellagio Fountain video… well… you know… I do not know how may times I reproduced that video! Unfortunately I had not the opportunity to travel to Las Vegas to see that marvel in person yet, but it is among the first positions in my wish list.

You guys have lighted that flame again so I am desiring to play with that spoon again under a nice laminar flow! I can not promise very much in this moment… as my Texan friends use to say… too many irons in the fire! Anyway I must confess that I was buying some stuff yesterday and also drew some lines in the CAD but I must walk now, step by step, until the time to run arrive.
My first goal is to do a little interior fountain with a single laminar jet falling on a curved surface to achieve that magical water bell of my childhood.

I have some ideas to do a nozzle similar to the one made by Karlsson that I think may work. By the way Karlsson, that was great!
I want to thank you Filip (liteglow) for creating such a great place to share so interesting things and amazing projects. I found this forum “pulling” from John’s Mad Laboratory blog so, thank a lot to you also John, you are great!

As a final comment I would like to congratulate Mario for his fantastic fountain. That is a beautiful project that deserves a special recognition and surely you, Mario, deserve the Nozzle Master Status.

OK, that’s all folks! Please excuse me for rumbling so much.. See you “on the flow”!

All the best,
Leonardo

PS. Here is a link to the Monjuïc Fountain: http://fonts.bcn.es/ie/index.asp?Idioma=eng
Click on “Maginc Fountain” in the left column, then Information... Photos... Videos...
Enjoy! Very Happy

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  liteglow on Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:36 am

Hi there Very Happy

And welcome to the forum..
Thank you for all the kind words cheers

It`s great to have a new member Smile
I`m in a hurry at this moment.. but I will continue to read and answer here on the forum when I got the time.
But there are so many ppl here with allot of experience, so I think you will find all your answer here Wink

good luck with your projects..


ttyl

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:40 pm

Hi Filip,
Thank you so much for your welcome!
I hope you will have some spare time to check the link to the Magic Fountain... do not forget to visit the Information" page. There is a lot of quite interesting info there.
Cheers,
Leonardo

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Magic-nozzle on Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:32 pm

Hi Leonarde, thank you join the Forum. And thanks for your nice compliments. Smile
The page is awsome, a great fontain, wow, one day i have one like this im my garnden lol!
No not really. I am glad to see some pictures of your project soon.
I was in Barcelona last year .. i miss to see that fontain, too bad.

Have fun, take your time ....

Mario

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  John on Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:49 am

Leonardo!!! Welcome!

I visited Barcelona once only for a day, but I liked what I saw of Spain. It's nice to meet you! I can't wait to see what you come up with. If you have questions feel free to ask.

Thanks for your complements too!

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:56 pm

Hi Mario!

Thank you for your welcome!

I am glad that you liked the Magic Fountain. It is really nice and big, but it is also very important consider that it was built in 1929!
The original controller was electromecanic so it was really a great achievement at that time. The controller was updated in the occasion of the Olympic Games in 1992 and today is computerized.
Unfortunatelly, in my opinion, the people in charge of the programming in these days are not doing the job that the Magic Fountain deserves. The musical selection as well as the effects are quite far from taking advantage of the huge possibilities that the fountain has. I have the chance to see great performances some years ago so I hope that they will be able to improve their job to honor Carlas Buïgas memory and the Fountain and also to offer a better spectacle to the public.

I was reading your post about your controller and must say that you did a great job there... Congrats on that too!
Now I would like to comment about the LEDs current control an issue that may be interesting for you. Although it is true that the voltage is not important when you are controlling the current it is only true from the point of view of the LEDs but it is quite important if we were looking at the current control device (in this case the LM317K).
I was reading the Lumileds data sheets and saw that the forward voltage for the red Led is 2.9V and for the other colors 3.9V, that mean that, if you are using a 12V power supply must drop about 3/4 the source voltage converting that excess in heat. I would suggest that you try using a 6V power supply to source the LEDs in order to reduce (quite much) the heat dissipated by the LM317Ks. In this way you will be able to reduce the cooler system and also extend the regulators life. I hope you can understand what I am trying to explain... my English is quite far from perfection!

All the best,
Leonardo


Last edited by Leonardo on Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:07 pm

Hey John.... thank you!

I hope you will be able to spend more time in Barcelona the next visit... drop me a line and I will be glad of taking you to the Magic Fountain!

Regarding my little project, I will be posting some pictures and comment along the process... promised!

Have a great day!
Leonardo.

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  John on Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:18 pm

I was reading your post about your controller and must say that you did a great job there... Congrats on that too!
Now I would like to comment about the LEDs current control an issue that may be interesting for you. Although it is true that the voltage is not important when you are controlling the current it is only true from the point of view of the LEDs but it is quite important if we were looking at the current control device (in this case the LM317K).
I was reading the Lumileds data sheets and saw that the forward voltage for the red Led is 2.9V and for the other colors 3.9V, that mean that, if you are using a 12V power supply must drop about 3/4 the source voltage converting that excess in heat. I would suggest that you try using a 6V power supply to source the LEDs in order to reduce (quite much) the heat dissipated by the LM317Ks. In this way you will be able to reduce the cooler system and also extend the regulators life. I hope you can understand what I am trying to explain... my English is quite far from perfection!

First off, you speak excellent English, better than most Americans!

Second, you bring up a good point about not over powering the chips, and regulators. I have a problem dealing with electronics. I am using the same schematic with the LM317 to regulate the current to .75A. I have three of those. I also have a 5.1V at 1A stepper motor. So this circuit needs about 4Amps, right? Ideally I think I should have a 5V 4A power supply, or is there a better way to organize the circuit so that I don't need so much amperage?

In my

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:09 pm

Hi again John!
Look... It is not important how many Amperes the power supply can source if it is equal or higher than the circuit needs. In this case we are talking about POWER, to know the power that a power supply may source you have to multiply the Amperes by the Voltage and you will get the result in Watts. (W=A*V)
The stepper and the LEDs are different type of loads, that mean they need different treatment. In the case of the LED operating at a constant current it is important to care about the voltage drop in the regulator because all the excess is converted in heat. Now, in the case of the motor, it is an inductive load that has a different behavior and also the driver is switching the power in a pulse burst so the driver transistors or IC is working in a commutation mode. In this case it is very important that you keep the motor current at or bellow the motor current rate (1A in your case) to prevent the motor over-heating.
You should look at the minimum voltage required for your steeper motor driver to select and appropriate power supply and then study the best way to connect the LEDs regulators there. Better yet, there are switching power supplies with multiple outputs that will be a perfect option for a project like this. As an example you can buy a power supply that has a 24V / 2A output for the motor and other 6V / 4A for the LEDs. (It is always better to have some extra power remaining).
I hope this help a bit!
All the best,
Leonardo.


Last edited by Leonardo on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Magic-nozzle on Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:42 pm

Leonardo wrote:Hi Mario!
I was reading your post about your controller and must say that you did a great job there... Congrats on that too!
Now I would like to comment about the LEDs current control an issue that may be interesting for you. Although it is true that the voltage is not important when you are controlling the current it is only true from the point of view of the LEDs but it is quite important if we were looking at the current control device (in this case the LM317K).
I was reading the Lumileds data sheets and saw that the forward voltage for the red Led is 2.9V and for the other colors 3.9V, that mean that, if you are using a 12V power supply must drop about 3/4 the source voltage converting that excess in heat. I would suggest that you try using a 6V power supply to source the LEDs in order to reduce (quite much) the heat dissipated by the LM317Ks. In this way you will be able to reduce the cooler system and also extend the regulators life. I hope you can understand what I am trying to explain... my English is quite far from perfection!
All the best,
Leonardo

Hi Leonardo, Thank you so much. As you can see on my shematics, i am not a Pro, but i am proud, i find so many Solution on the net and in books and so on, and put a working solution together by my self .. Smile

Yes i heard about the voltage thing later, after creted my first setup with the leds. The problem is i dont know relly how to use more than one power supply on 1 cirquit?. I try this once, conecdting the ground together of the 2 power supplys, and bang, switch on! *BANG* One supply was dying. How do you take care of it when using more than one suply. thats one reason why i burn the theat on my coolers, it works perfect like this, Only one suply 12V 5 A, enough for all my parts, Knocker, Cutter and so on. But yes a bit heat. Ok a lot of heat ... Sad

John, the cirqut of my Stepper contoller i was posting earlier, has a current regulation integreted, i let only 12 V / 0.45 A on the stepper, no heat problems and less Power needed..

Thank you for your Help Leonardo


Last edited by Magic-nozzle on Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:16 am

Hey Mario! Good morning...
You did really a great job there with the electronics and must be proud of it!
Regarding the "BANG" hahaha... well... its is quite normal burning some things when experimenting in electronics. The problem is that when it happens we can ruin expensive components and it really hurt (in our pockets!). I know about that! What about buying an expensive video camera module and burn it in a second because a mistake in the connections.... and this was not the only one... yes! I know about that! Sad
I do not know what may happened in your case but can tell you that the COMMON terminal it is not always the GROUND terminal but it would be necessary analyzing all the circuit to discover what happened.
I would suggest to use and inexpensive computer power supply in this kind of projects. This power supplies has multiple outputs with really high current rates and you can take it off from and old computer that you may have laying around. Anyway you can buy one brand new for about 20 euros or even less.
Convencionaly the yellow cables are the 12V outputs and the red ones are 5V outputs. The black cables are common terminals and the chassis (box) is the ground.
The 5V outputs should be perfect to connect the LM317Ks although it will be only 1.1V above the potential you need for the LEDs but the LM317 are working in a floating configuration so it would be quite enough to control the LEDs current.
If you disassemble a PC power supply will be able to see that all the yellow cables are connected together as well as the red ones and the black ones... so you can either cut the terminals and connect they together at the other end or replace they (by color) by thicker cables with a section suitable for your application.
Keep experimenting!! Very Happy
All the best,
Leonardo.

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Magic-nozzle on Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:44 am

Hi Leonardo,

Yes a pc power supply is usefull, but big! I have all in a water proove box, and not that much space. thank you for reminding me for that option.

Yes its funny to burn electronic stuff, yes and expensive too Very Happy

But what you think about hang two power supplys together (12V and a 5V)? Should it be possible to use like this, ground connected?

thanks again for your help, you really know lots about this stuff, verry nice, i wish i had your knowledge.

Ragads and have a nice day .... rabbit

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:40 am

Hi again Mario, you are welcome!

I was seeing the picture of your controller box and think that the temperature is really an issue in an enclosed environment.
The fan that you have there is not doing almost nothing than moving the heat around and, even worst, that hot air may be heating other components because the temperature will be equilibrated in a closed box.
I think that removing the two power supplies that you have there you will have enough place for a single PC power supply. If you take the power supply circuit out of the box it is not really that big and you will be able to accommodate it in the upper left corner. Also you can rearrange the controller board placing it in a vertical position but I would suggest you make a shield with and aluminium plate to protect the controller.

Regarding the two power supplies working together a fact is that the switching ones are not very "friendly" with the inductive ones, may be that was the problem with that "bang".

Come on!... try the PC power supply option. You will be able to lower the overall temperature in the box because you are not consuming much power from the supply.

Please tell me what you think about.

Kind regards,
Leonardo.

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Magic-nozzle on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:45 am

Leonardo wrote:Hi again Mario, you are welcome!

I was seeing the picture of your controller box and think that the temperature is really an issue in an enclosed environment.
The fan that you have there is not doing almost nothing than moving the heat around and, even worst, that hot air may be heating other components because the temperature will be equilibrated in a closed box.
I think that removing the two power supplies that you have there you will have enough place for a single PC power supply. If you take the power supply circuit out of the box it is not really that big and you will be able to accommodate it in the upper left corner. Also you can rearrange the controller board placing it in a vertical position but I would suggest you make a shield with and aluminium plate to protect the controller.

Regarding the two power supplies working together a fact is that the switching ones are not very "friendly" with the inductive ones, may be that was the problem with that "bang".

Come on!... try the PC power supply option. You will be able to lower the overall temperature in the box because you are not consuming much power from the supply.

Please tell me what you think about.

Kind regards,
Leonardo.

Hi Leonardo thank you so much for your inputs. First, the problem is, the box is now looking diferent than in my Pictures, i mount another master controll board and a 12 V AC suply in there for the Halogen spots, and there is relly not a lot of space left. Also i cant mount the PCB upright, because i want to easy re programm my contollers. The temparature in the box is warm but there are special air holes in the sides and its not that hot, the RGB is not running all the time, it is alternating every 20 Minutes with the Bubbling stone, and this only in the dark. And second, i dont like to break apart the box it ruin all, it runns really nice and i dont want to start again, but if i will have problems after some time, i have to try the PC supply soluton.

But till them, i lay in my easy chair in the garden and watch the show Laughing

Thank you again you are a very nice cool person and we are glad to have you here.

Good luck with your own project ... i keep an eye of you and your posts ...
Very Happy

Cheers Mario

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Re: Greeting from Spain!

Post  Leonardo on Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:27 pm

Hi Mario!

I can understand what you are taking about, anyway do not hesitate to ask if you need any help from my part.

And now... enjoy your fountain... surely a well deserved pleasure! Very Happy

I will post my achievements when I have something to show. Thank you again for your interest and kind comments!

All the best,
Leonardo.

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