My project build thread...

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My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:20 am

Thought id start a thread that I can keep updated with my progress on my new nozzle project. I intend to make a real go of this, all parts will be CNC cut, the finished jet will be nice and neat.

I have started with cad models, mostly based on liteglows guide. Two inch first empty chamber, two inch foam, two inch empty chamber, straws then two inch head room then the jet. I am only doing 6 inch rather than 8 though.

I have planned a tangential water input although its not a traditional one. I intend to have a hole cut at the edge of the inside with an angle piece on it, so the water is fired round the edge of the tube. Its much easier to make than cutting a hole in the acrylic.

I am going to run four PMMA fibres up the centre of the jet and im going to use stainless steel tube so it stays straight, as I find the plastic tube is fairly bendy.

I will water jet cut some plastic cart wheel type pieces that will position the stainless tube at both ends of the empty chambers behind the straws to position the stainless for the PMMA.


The nozzle will be turned from stainless steel, I have not decided what the jet diameter will be yet, I am open to suggestion. Maybe 12mm or so?

The top and bottom plates are made from PE plastic, black and 20mm thick. I will CNC route the plates out with six holes for M8 threaded rod. I will machine in two 10mm deep grooves for the plastic pipe to sit in, and I will put some O rings in to seal so when the screws are done up, it will compress the O rings to seal. I am hoping I get some 6 inch O rings, I have a reasonable relationship with a specialist O ring supplier. If not, I will either use endless O ring material, but this is going to create a possible leak point where the two ends of the rubber meet. I can either glue these ends and sand it down to make it flat, but its never going to be as good as one O ring. The alternative is to make do with split O rings and then when I am happy with the design, I can squirt some silicone sealant into the groove so it seals that way. This is a last resort as it will obviously make it hard to get the end caps off.

Anyway, some photos so far...







The jet will sit at the back near the black drain pipe (and all the parsley) and will jump into the pond.


I will keep everything updated as I go.


Pete.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Khalid on Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:21 am

Hi Pete,
I really love to watch your work with thousands of photos and every detail of the laminar nozzle.. Also post your CAD drawing.. I will follow your built.
Thanks

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:01 am

Hi Khalid,

More progress today:

Went to pick up the tube today, it looks good but the cut on the end is not flat or square with the tube. This will cause a problem with my end caps and seals as if the top is not flat, then the high spots will create a space for the water to escape and leak.

This caused a bit of a brain teaser for me, as the tube is too brittle to put in the lathe, and since both ends were bad, I had no way of standing the tube up straight to cut the other end straight.

In the end, I attached some fine glass paper (320grit) on a ground steel flat table and gently rubbed the end of the tube in circular patterns. You can hear the tube vibrate and make strange noises as you spin it, but as you work it, the noise changes. You can hear when the high spots are gone and the tube is flat. Make sure that when you do this you use something that is absolutely flat. I am using a calibrated ground flat slab, so I know the top of my tube is flat.





Standing the tube on a ground flat granite slab and squaring it against a bottle square to check the end is square with the tube. Its not perfect, but its pretty good for sand paper.


I stood the tube flat on the granite slab and went round the edge with some 1 thou foil. Its a good way of checking it, check the foil all the way round, and if the foil suddenly slips under the tube edge, then you know theres a high spot. Keep rubbing on the glass paper until you can check the foil all the way round and it wont slide under anywhere. This way, you know that the edge is flat all the way along, which will give it the best possible face to seal on.


A note about my tube, its six inch, and 17inches long. It looks very long compared to other peoples designes.

I used the formular of 2 inches inlet space, two inches foam, two inches dead space, then straws (8 inches) and then 2 inches dead space before the nozzle. Most people seem to use 8 inches, but I feel this may be slightly redundant. My jet will not spray as far as some others and im confident that 6 inches diameter is enough. I got pretty good results with a four inch nozzle, so I think the six inch one should do OK.


I am now thinking about how I am going to mount the stainless fibre tube.

Back in a bit with the cad renders.



Pete.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:25 am

Just done the cad drawings.

The water inlet elbow I have is rather large, designed for 16bar pressure so the walls are thick. The fitting is pretty big, but its the only one I could find. Having drawn it up for the 3D model it looks too big, like it won't fit. I was going to have a mushroom shaped foam filter but I think the size of the is first elbow is too big to allow much of a foam filter in the middle (its in the drawing anyway).

I have also not yet decided how I am going to support the mesh that will be under the straws. The foam will support itself, but the straws will need mesh to stop them slipping down into the dead space under neath.

I have some spare acrylic tube, but cutting it is quite hard. I might go back to where I got the tube to get them to cut it, but the guy was rather rude and Im not sure I really want to go back there and talk to him again. Il try and cut it myself, but I don't have the specialist tools to cut it properly. I might have to go back to get them to cut off some 2 inch hoops and I can slit them on the band saw so they will fit inside the tube to support the mesh.

I have also put in a plastic support for the fibre tube. This is shown in the purple colour in the 3D drawing. This is a disk with four spokes, cut from 5mm plastic sheet. The idea behind this is to support the fibre tube, so it is supported at the base, and a few inches up by this plastic spacer. This is to keep it central so it points through the nozzle.


(obviously the straws will fill the whole chamber, not just the outside.)

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:06 pm

I have had a brainwave, to save space Im going to take my 1 1/4 threaded nipple thingy and stick it in the lathe, take about 1mm off the radius so that it forms a step. Im going to ream the hole in the bottom plug to fit this very tightly. I am also going to turn the ID out so I can fit a 22mm coupler inside it.

In the UK we have an amazing glue called sticks like shit (it really is called sticks like shit!!!) and it does exactly what it says, and it sticks everything to everything, its absolutely incredible. I don't you know if you can get it in other countries, probably not with the same name, but its worth looking out for.

Anyway, im going to use sticks like shit on the PVC coupling and press it hard into the hole up to the step, which should seal nicely. I will also press the coupler tight inside the PVC tube with more sticks like shit.

This is great because it means I have a really huge robust 1 1/4in thread on the outside and on the inside, I can use the cheap and compact 22mm water pipe.

This means the 90 degree elbow is about half the size, which saves height and space on the diameter. It also means theres ample space to use a T instead of the 90deg which would be a nice experiment to slowing down the water.


Hopefully will modify this PVC nipple tomorrow and see how we get on...


Pete.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  liteglow on Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:09 pm

wow !

Very impressive CAD drawings !
You sure do some heavy research and drawings before you start your project Wink

I`m sure you will have a great result, but dont forget that if the fiber cable is to close to the output, the laminar stream can be worse.
For my own nozzle I did remove all the fiber cables inside to have a better stream, but no light Smile

but then again, the sun is up 20hours a day where I live in the summer times Razz so no need to have light lol


cheers

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:03 pm



Rough render showing how its gonna roughly go together.

I have not really got an easy way to pull the fibres back on the fly. The way my tube is mounted, it would be a total strip down, then cut a bit off the end of the tube and put it back in to shorten it. I think maybe start an inch away from the jet and work back until the results are satisfactory for both.

I have a cunning plan up my sleeve for mounting the fibres, so hopefully this will all work out....

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Khalid on Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:55 am

wow..stunning CAD work and i am pretty sure your well-engineered design will produce perfect laminar flow. I am religiously following your thread and will start making the same soon.
Thanks for sharing your hard work with us.
Regards

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:39 am

So I had a good day today with the jet.

I went to my local hydraulics shop today and got a 1 1/4in BSP threaded coupler. Unfortunately, its zinc plated steel, so it will rust and corrode over time. Im probably going to stick it together with silicone to seal the water from the surface of the steel. I will probably test this, and then either make my own one from aluminium or plastic. This will do for testing.

I also went to my local bearing shop (i love living here its full of industrial suppliers) and asked the guy 'Are you any good with O rings?' and he said 'Yeh, we are pretty hot on O rings' and it turns out, they really are hot on O rings. They had on the shelf 6inch x 3mm O rings, perfect for sealing the plates onto the ends of the tube.

Some photos to follow.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Khalid on Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:51 am

Really interesting if you find the O-ring according to your specifications... You can enhance the fountain if it is possible to add STEPPER Motor for rotating the whole rig... Make 4+ laminar nozzles and make a beautiful stunning effects and designs...
currently i am involve in making Graphical waterfall project..you can find the description in my following blog... May be that will be your's second project:
www.my-woodcarving.blogspot.com

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:07 pm

Hi Khalid,

That looks cool, ive seen those fountains before, they are quite clever. Must be quite hard to make a jet that is constant and controllable like that, will be interested to see your final result.

Not much is gonna happen here for a few days because of this silly royal wedding thing, but on Tuesday I will take the plastic to get the end caps machined.

I am also going to get in touch with a friend who operates a foam supplier, I can get him to CNC cut the foam filters.

I also thought about motors moving the whole jet. At first I thought it would be nice to just have 2-3 inches of rotation just so you can move the jets so they meet in the middle, and then move them off so they dont. Also would be cool to wiggle side by side to make the jet bend in the air in a wavy pattern. I guess once the jet is done and working, you can stick it on whatever kind of base you want...

I was also going to ask, does anyone know what the deal is with laminar jets and patents? I know one guy had a patent on it, but is that still valid?

I was thinking, if this works nicely, I may decide to offer it as a kit of parts....




Not much to see here, but these are the O rings. THey wont go round the tube like that, but will sit on the circular edge. Im very surprised I managed to get them so easily.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:52 am

Today the stainless steel tube for the PMMA light fibres arrived. I had hoped it would fit into 15mm compression fittings so I can mount and seal it, but its a bit tight. I think the best thing will be to spin it in the lathe and just run some wet n dry paper on the edge to take the diameter down a bit.


Other than that, its quite a nice bit of tube.


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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Thu May 05, 2011 9:56 am

Today I got a tank connector which will hold the fibre tube in place on the bottom plug. This is the last bit I needed to get before I could get my top and bottom disks machined.



This fitting will clamp through the bottom to allow the fibres out of the tube without leaking. Its designed to connect 15mm copper water pipe to water tanks, it works well for this as I can just bolt it through the plastic disk.

Will do the drawings tonight.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Thu May 05, 2011 11:42 am

Just put the stainless tube into the tank connector and I have found that the connector holds the tube incredibly rigidly, no wobble at all. It also seems to hold the tube absolutely square to the base, which was unexpected. The plastic disk I had designed to hold the tube in the centre of the jet (which would upset water flow) seems to no longer be necessary, which is good news.


I just hope it seals, it may require some PTFE tape, as I had to sand the end of the tube down to get the olive over the end of the tube, hopefully the sanded surface wont let water out.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Mon May 09, 2011 9:30 am

A bit of progress today, got 6 pieces of stainless steel M8 threaded rod to hold the top and bottom caps, and I got some nice stainless nuts and capnuts to go on the ends.

I also went to see a local company that supply all sorts of foams, and they have got pond filter style foam on a massive 2x1x1m block. They can cut shapes to order, so I am going to get them to CNC cut the foam filter disks. I have two grades here, hard and soft and im going to see which one gives the best results for water 'diffusion'.

Should get the end caps back this week, so will be able to put it together fairly soon...


Pete.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Fri May 13, 2011 5:19 am

So Loads of developments today.

Top and bottom caps are ready, foam filters are ready and I got some mesh in the post.



Caps done, although a bit burry, needs a bit of cleaning up. Fits the tube perfectly and the O ring fits in the groove really neatly too.

The plate with the two holes is the bottom, water enters at the side hole, and the fibre goes in the centre hole.


This is the brass mount that will hold the fibre optic tube.


The top and bottom caps on the tube. The first time I have seen the jet looking like this, and its the first time I have really appreciated how tall and thin this nozzle is.


The fibre exit.


The fibre tube in the main water chamber.

Photos of the filters to follow...

Pete.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Fri May 13, 2011 11:00 am



One of the specially made CNC cut foam filters.



The filter squashed in to the tube. The tube is 6inch OD, so I specced the foam to be 6inch OD too, so it can squash a bit into the tube and get a good seal round the edges. This works well, however this foam is nowhere near as soft as I had thought, and it is quite a push to get it in. The only issue I see here is that I still need to have another tube inside the main tube which will support all the staws. This will mean that the ID of the tube will be another 6mm smaller, which will squash the foam even further. I had him cut me some 2inch diameter filters too, which were going to go underneath this one to space it. It holds itself in so tight, I don't think it will need it....


Also has an issue with the O rings, they bubbled slightly (too big for the groove) so I took it back to my O ring suppliers, and they rooted around and found me another size that fits absolutly perfectly in the groove. Im now confident that I will achieve a perfect seal first time round.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Fri May 13, 2011 12:46 pm

So I just cut my threaded rods down to size and put it all together.

I had thought it would have been harder to get the caps on flat, as you would have to do the screws up a bit at a time to get the O ring compressed properly. It was easier than I thought, and before too long, I had all the screws done up nice and tight. No cracking or signs of stress from the caps or the tube.

At the moment there is a whacking great big hole in both ends, so I cant totally fill the entire tube to test for leaks. All I can do is lie the tube on its side, and fill it up to the nozzle hole. This will atleast test the seals a bit, if not fully, as its not testing the entire seal or for any pressure, but its something to do whilst I finish off the other bits.

The good news is, its an absolute perfect seal at this stage. I filled it with water until the level was up to the output nozzle, and its an hour gone and its not moved. The plastic under the seal is bone dry, no drips, no nothing.

I was dreading having to use vasalene or a silicone sealant, but it looks like the O rings might have done the job.




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Re: My project build thread...

Post  liteglow on Fri May 13, 2011 3:25 pm

impressive and beautiful !

I like how you can see inside.
What if you have clear straws inside also ?
But if you have filters, I think you dont need straws.
If the diameter on the tube is big enough...
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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Fri May 13, 2011 5:16 pm

Could use clear straws... The ones i had in mind are brightly coloured party straws.

Its been sitting for about 6-7hours now, and not a single drop has leaked out. A success I think.



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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Sat May 14, 2011 3:26 am

Its been a good 15hrs now, no leaks.

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Gator on Sat May 14, 2011 6:39 pm

That is a work of art.... I sure hope it produces the desired results!! PLEASE keep these updates coming... cheers

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Sun May 15, 2011 5:55 am

Hi Gator,

Glad you like it. It does look nice like some kind of scifi evil professor lab device.

I am going to get the main output nozzle done this week, and the water input. I have also started work on improving the pond area where the jet is going to go.







Not quite finished yet...

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Mon May 16, 2011 8:43 am

Been out today to get some more bits. Managed to get a hose tail to fit onto my 1inch BSP water inlet, some seals for the fibre tube, and I also went to get some more rocks and stones for the pond area.



Think im in the right place for rocks...!!

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Re: My project build thread...

Post  Hoarp001 on Mon May 16, 2011 11:15 am



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